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Official Matchmaking Discussion Thread


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JefeMac #1761 Posted 17 August 2021 - 05:15 AM

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View Postj_rod, on 17 August 2021 - 02:40 AM, said:

 

And no new material for 86 of them. For the people complaining, there's a pretty common trope - inability to overcome their teammates' deficiencies and the desire for WG to do it for them. 

 

This thread is the equivalent of people that can't ride a bike really well wanting everyone to have to use training wheels simply bc they struggle. 

In other words: people today….



 

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whatzup22 #1762 Posted 17 August 2021 - 08:02 AM

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Imagine if OP comes back to this thread to realise it contains 80-something pages of bullcrap

_Crusader6_ #1763 Posted 17 August 2021 - 10:25 AM

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View Postwhatzup22, on 17 August 2021 - 03:02 AM, said:

Imagine if OP comes back to this thread to realise it contains 80-something pages of bullcrap


He knows. 


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whatzup22 #1764 Posted 17 August 2021 - 10:51 AM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 17 August 2021 - 06:25 PM, said:


He knows. 

uhm

hello OP

star trek fan eh?



Bafh29 #1765 Posted 17 August 2021 - 07:40 PM

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There are so many people and institutions to blame for this. The snowflakes are a symptom of a deeper disease.

dangerousdan26 #1766 Posted 19 August 2021 - 03:47 AM

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Matchmaking usually just sucks.  No way to say it nicely.  If the objective is to match two teams in a relatively fair manner for a good player experience,  MM fails miserably 

j_rod #1767 Posted 19 August 2021 - 04:20 AM

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View Postdangerousdan26, on 18 August 2021 - 09:47 PM, said:

Matchmaking usually just sucks.  No way to say it nicely.  If the objective is to match two teams in a relatively fair manner for a good player experience,  MM fails miserably 

 

I’ll bite. 

 

If MM was “balanced” by say, winrate, then you’d actually be losing even more now. Reason being, your 59% was inflated by playing the majority of your games at the lower tiers and by playing the Smasher for 4K+ battles. 

 

So let’s say MM was balanced by winrate. You’re a better player than me by career winrate, so I’d actually draw better teammates than you if that’s how it was balanced. You’d be on here complaining even more about how unfair things were even though the reality is that we can see that when you play the higher tiers, you’re not good (hello 48% winrate and 1040 damage at tier 8). 

 

Here’s the thing Daniel, there’s no way to please everyone and the only “fair” way to balance MM for everyone is to balance by tier/class. Anything else is just creating some degree of unfairness for everyone else and would be determined by a skill metric that a good chunk of people wouldn’t care for. 

 

*Edit to add - I’ll also say that balancing by tier/class is the only fair way, but given the broken OP nature of some tanks, I’m not suggesting that this is implemented correctly either. So long as there are tanks that are broken, even random MM becomes “unfair”. 


Edited by j_rod, 19 August 2021 - 02:21 PM.

Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 


Bafh29 #1768 Posted 19 August 2021 - 08:36 PM

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The more I read this thread, the more I think that "perception is reality". I am a fan of Bushka, I watched him play live the other day. Nobody will deny the guy is really good. The first hour, it took him 10 battles to score a win. he was the top player each time, top damage, but horrible teams, terrible decision from teammates. He didn't beach about it, he just played on, made fun of himself when he screwed up, made fun of 45k players with 39% WR. Then, it got better, and he started to win again. Sheet happens, move on.

j_rod #1769 Posted 19 August 2021 - 08:59 PM

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View PostBafh29, on 19 August 2021 - 02:36 PM, said:

The more I read this thread, the more I think that "perception is reality". I am a fan of Bushka, I watched him play live the other day. Nobody will deny the guy is really good. The first hour, it took him 10 battles to score a win. he was the top player each time, top damage, but horrible teams, terrible decision from teammates. He didn't beach about it, he just played on, made fun of himself when he screwed up, made fun of 45k players with 39% WR. Then, it got better, and he started to win again. Sheet happens, move on.


I agree with most of what Bushka says. Did you hear the part where he talked about the push for platooning has actually created worse teams?

 

If there’s an issue with MM, it’s around the fact that two platoons have to be matched up against each other and that failtoons are allowed.


Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 


acrisis #1770 Posted 19 August 2021 - 09:09 PM

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I saw part of that string of battles too, where the wins were not coming due to green potato overload, some RNG, ... 

Having 40% ers make bad calls at the start and a 40% platoon on green plays a huge part in how " not well " the battle will end up for you. Add in some focus fire from red onto the perceived best player on green, and there is another steamroll loss in the making.  


 

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Bafh29 #1771 Posted 20 August 2021 - 12:48 AM

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View Postj_rod, on 19 August 2021 - 03:59 PM, said:


I agree with most of what Bushka says. Did you hear the part where he talked about the push for platooning has actually created worse teams?

 

If there’s an issue with MM, it’s around the fact that two platoons have to be matched up against each other and that failtoons are allowed.

 

Don't remember that part but I am sure it is true, there are so many variables that can influence the outcomes of any games, MM is just one. I just played a rating game where 4 of my teammates scored zero damage. Like I said, moving on..



dangerousdan26 #1772 Posted 26 August 2021 - 04:29 AM

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Yes, WOTB's matchmaker simply sucks.  It always has.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is in the employ of the company.  

dangerousdan26 #1773 Posted 26 August 2021 - 04:39 AM

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In its goal of balancing opposing teams fairly, Matchmaker fails miserably.  We've all seen the lopsided victories (7-0, 7-1, 7-2).  Rarely do I see a 7-6.  When those even matches occur, MM is working.  The main reason is that toons will always skew the results.  A toon makes up 2/7 of the team and has a significant effect (+ or -) on the team's performance.  For MM, toons are roughly balanced in certain attributes.  They are NOT matched by win rate (WR).  Because toons are usually formed by players of roughly equal caliber, more often than not, one toon may be a 60% WR toon and the other, a 40% WR toon.  The outcome is likely in favor of the better toon.  In conclusion, matchmaker SUCKS!

j_rod #1774 Posted 26 August 2021 - 05:15 AM

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View Postdangerousdan26, on 25 August 2021 - 10:39 PM, said:

In its goal of balancing opposing teams fairly, Matchmaker fails miserably.  We've all seen the lopsided victories (7-0, 7-1, 7-2).  Rarely do I see a 7-6.  When those even matches occur, MM is working.  The main reason is that toons will always skew the results.  A toon makes up 2/7 of the team and has a significant effect (+ or -) on the team's performance.  For MM, toons are roughly balanced in certain attributes.  They are NOT matched by win rate (WR).  Because toons are usually formed by players of roughly equal caliber, more often than not, one toon may be a 60% WR toon and the other, a 40% WR toon.  The outcome is likely in favor of the better toon.  In conclusion, matchmaker SUCKS!


This is the first time I agree with Dan. I agree that the way that MM matches platoons is flawed, especially with the preponderance of bad platoons these days.


Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 


_Crusader6_ #1775 Posted 26 August 2021 - 11:53 AM

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View Postj_rod, on 26 August 2021 - 12:15 AM, said:


This is the first time I agree with Dan. I agree that the way that MM matches platoons is flawed, especially with the preponderance of bad platoons these days.


Unfortunately that was heavily player requested.  
   All on needs to do is look on Discord (and at times here) and realize players are their own worst enemy - and most don’t think of the implications before making requests. 
 


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j_rod #1776 Posted 26 August 2021 - 12:32 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 26 August 2021 - 05:53 AM, said:


Unfortunately that was heavily player requested.  
   All on needs to do is look on Discord (and at times here) and realize players are their own worst enemy - and most don’t think of the implications before making requests. 
 


What specifically was player requested?


Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 


_Crusader6_ #1777 Posted 26 August 2021 - 12:37 PM

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View Postj_rod, on 26 August 2021 - 07:32 AM, said:


What specifically was player requested?


Toon matching, stupid consumables, heavy HP buffs, I can go on 


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j_rod #1778 Posted 26 August 2021 - 12:44 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 26 August 2021 - 06:37 AM, said:


Toon matching, stupid consumables, heavy HP buffs, I can go on 


Fair enough. Which is why I find it funny that when we ask specifically how one would do MM differently, nobody can define that.

 

”I want skill based MM”

 

” Defined how?”

 

”Uhhhh skill”


Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 


JefeMac #1779 Posted 26 August 2021 - 08:16 PM

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View PostBafh29, on 19 August 2021 - 08:36 PM, said:

The more I read this thread, the more I think that "perception is reality". I am a fan of Bushka, I watched him play live the other day. Nobody will deny the guy is really good. The first hour, it took him 10 battles to score a win. he was the top player each time, top damage, but horrible teams, terrible decision from teammates. He didn't beach about it, he just played on, made fun of himself when he screwed up, made fun of 45k players with 39% WR. Then, it got better, and he started to win again. Sheet happens, move on.

The difference between an adult like Bushka and his much younger counterparts in the YT community. 



 

The only bad questions are the ones never asked, the only bad ideas are ones never considered.
 


JefeMac #1780 Posted 26 August 2021 - 08:19 PM

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View Postj_rod, on 19 August 2021 - 08:59 PM, said:


I agree with most of what Bushka says. Did you hear the part where he talked about the push for platooning has actually created worse teams?

 

If there’s an issue with MM, it’s around the fact that two platoons have to be matched up against each other and that failtoons are allowed.

And that my friend is the very crux of my frustration. WG pushes to have players platoon, yet aren’t able to grasp that by having 60%+ players in 1 platoon, yet the only balancing mm factor is by tank class is a HUGE, MAJOR blindspot in their approach.
 

I know I’m an average player on my best day, but I can be a good teammate.Still, I really can’t recall the last time I was on the wrong end of a 7-0/7-1 steam roll and the 60% WR platoon was on the losing side.  


Edited by JefeMac, 26 August 2021 - 08:25 PM.


 

The only bad questions are the ones never asked, the only bad ideas are ones never considered.
 





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