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dangerousdan26 #1821 Posted 13 October 2021 - 04:43 AM

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View Postgeneralhonks, on 11 October 2021 - 11:19 AM, said:

I’ve never seen any evidence of rigged MM personally. I get good battles a lot, and I haven’t lost too many battles in a row for a long time. That doesn’t mean that MM is not rigged, after all, I do buy tanks and BPs a lot. So if MM is based off how much you pay, maybe that’s why I’m seemingly immune.

View Post_Crusader6_, on 11 October 2021 - 12:23 PM, said:

Dangerous to his own team Dan again with his failed seal clubber rants. 

   So Dan, tell us, you managed to break 60% this month, by clubbing tier 4-6, do you realize that you are proving the fact that MM isn’t rigged by doing that?  
 

 
  

_Crusader6_, stay in school kid



dangerousdan26 #1822 Posted 13 October 2021 - 04:58 AM

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View Postj_rod, on 12 October 2021 - 10:58 AM, said:


Cool story. That said, there’s data that shows the importance of queue times in a mobile game so while you may be ok with it, many wouldn’t.

 

Just stick to seal clubbing and you’ll be fine.

Stay in school kid.  You have much to learn in life



whatzup22 #1823 Posted 13 October 2021 - 07:48 AM

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View Postdangerousdan26, on 13 October 2021 - 12:58 PM, said:

Stay in school kid.  You have much to learn in life

jrods not a mirror



Bellatormonk #1824 Posted 13 October 2021 - 04:58 PM

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These are not kids you are talking to here.  Kids don't have the time nor do they care to discuss these things.  If you cannot articulate exactly what you think is rigged in MM and/or why it is rigged you will not get far in your efforts other than grade school insults.

I am hardly the forum or WG defender by any means and am one of the biggest hatters here, however even I can tell you I am not seeing the newest charges being argued well. 



dangerousdan26 #1825 Posted 13 October 2021 - 05:56 PM

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View PostBellatormonk, on 13 October 2021 - 04:58 PM, said:

These are not kids you are talking to here.  Kids don't have the time nor do they care to discuss these things.  If you cannot articulate exactly what you think is rigged in MM and/or why it is rigged you will not get far in your efforts other than grade school insults.

I am hardly the forum or WG defender by any means and am one of the biggest hatters here, however even I can tell you I am not seeing the newest charges being argued well. 

Bellator,
I would point out that others started the so-called school insults which I agree is very childish.  I shall endeavor to take the high road and ignore the insults.

A very large portion of the players believe MM is broken or even rigged.  I would not use the word rigged but I believe there are "manipulations" which have an effect on outcomes.  Until such time as WOTB gives more transparency in to the MM software, we will never know how much manipulation occurs and folks will speculate using anecdotal observations.  The biggest issue for unfair MM is that WOTB MM doesn't consider the skill of players.  WOTB has actually told us that.  That fact, I believe, results in lopsided games.  We've all experienced the 7-0 or 6-1 game outcomes.  I have noticed this is really amplified when there are platoons playing.  It is my observation that players who choose to play together in a toon are roughly the same WRs and therefore the possibility that toons are mismatched (60% WR toon versus 40% WR toon) really leads to a lopsided match.

PS did you mean "hatter" or "hater"?    

Go Navy!    


Edited by dangerousdan26, 13 October 2021 - 05:57 PM.


_Crusader6_ #1826 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:13 PM

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View Postdangerousdan26, on 13 October 2021 - 12:56 PM, said:

Bellator,
I would point out that others started the so-called school insults which I agree is very childish.  I shall endeavor to take the high road and ignore the insults.

A very large portion of the players believe MM is broken or even rigged.  I would not use the word rigged but I believe there are "manipulations" which have an effect on outcomes.  Until such time as WOTB gives more transparency in to the MM software, we will never know how much manipulation occurs and folks will speculate using anecdotal observations.  The biggest issue for unfair MM is that WOTB MM doesn't consider the skill of players.  WOTB has actually told us that.  That fact, I believe, results in lopsided games.  We've all experienced the 7-0 or 6-1 game outcomes.  I have noticed this is really amplified when there are platoons playing.  It is my observation that players who choose to play together in a toon are roughly the same WRs and therefore the possibility that toons are mismatched (60% WR toon versus 40% WR toon) really leads to a lopsided match.

PS did you mean "hatter" or "hater"?    

Go Navy!    

Navy sucks ;) 

 

Dan, you feel the game should use some sort of skill balancer in MM it is clear.  
   What do you feel that is ‘fair’. 
 

Personally I am from the school of ‘the only fair fight is the one you win’ as the winners wrote history ;) 

 

Skill in Blitz is the next question.  We see from ratings that it’s no better than pubbies, as you get the same rating throughout, which is spread out over 4 tiers and (at least theoretically) almost 350 tanks. 
   So how does WG then define skill?  
By WR overall, that won’t work - as different tiers have often different results 

 By WR in tier, but what about tanks they aren’t great in? 
  By WR in a tank? But when does it start to count? 
 

WG doesn’t use Wn7 or Wn8, so if not WR is it average damage? 
 

I’ve yet to see a well articulated (let alone a well planned out) replacement option for the current MM. 

  Many people have posted they don’t like the current MM, but rarely offer what specifically they don’t like.  
I will credit you here, as at least you have identified an aspect of MM you don’t like.   
 

To me, I happen to like the current MM, simply because over time, one generally gets the results from ones performance.  
   Sure there are games here and there that are outliers, but by and large with a decent sample size you get a fairly accurate result by WR.   


Now I do admit I benefit from this, as if MM factored in player skill (whatever we decided that is) I’d be facing tougher opponents in more battles than I do now.  I don’t view changes to the MM as fair for me if there where to adopt a skill based MM.  

 

 

 


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j_rod #1827 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:15 PM

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View Postdangerousdan26, on 13 October 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

Bellator,
I would point out that others started the so-called school insults which I agree is very childish.  I shall endeavor to take the high road and ignore the insults.

A very large portion of the players believe MM is broken or even rigged.  I would not use the word rigged but I believe there are "manipulations" which have an effect on outcomes.  Until such time as WOTB gives more transparency in to the MM software, we will never know how much manipulation occurs and folks will speculate using anecdotal observations.  The biggest issue for unfair MM is that WOTB MM doesn't consider the skill of players.  WOTB has actually told us that.  That fact, I believe, results in lopsided games.  We've all experienced the 7-0 or 6-1 game outcomes.  I have noticed this is really amplified when there are platoons playing.  It is my observation that players who choose to play together in a toon are roughly the same WRs and therefore the possibility that toons are mismatched (60% WR toon versus 40% WR toon) really leads to a lopsided match.

PS did you mean "hatter" or "hater"?    

Go Navy!    


Why would anyone take you serious? You think our calling out how you play is an insult, but what we’re doing is bringing attention to the fact that you play exclusively low tiers against new players. If you have another account where you’re playing upper tiers, nobody knows about it, but from what we can easily see, you have no reason to be complaining whatsoever. 

 

The issue with the logic that is being used is that it’s not based on anything other than individual anecdotes and that’s why we rely on math to prove out statistical reality and what we’re looking for are trends that fall outside the norm. Specifically, most people suggest that MM is “rigged” by skewing one team’s skill against the other. The easiest way to measure that is by using winrate and so if we take a set of games and look at the distribution of winrates for both teams across the set of games, we can see if there is some sort of abnormality. Thus far, it has not shown to exist. 

 

Furthermore, and this is the point I really want you and others to consider when you start talking about “rigged” games and teams - specifically tell us how you think the games are rigged and how matchmaking is causing that to happen. At the end of the day, MM is used to assign players to teams so if a game is “rigged” then that means they are creating uneven teams….so how exactly is this happening? Then, once you’ve thought about that, tell me exactly how they would apply this logic to seven players, bc they aren’t just rigging against one player, they’d ipso facto have to be rigging against 7 and for the other 7. So again, how exactly is this being put into place? Whatever method you come up, we can test against to see if there’s any basis of reality to it. 

 

Lastly, almost everyone (with a few notable exceptions) is frustrated with the level of play right now. I know I am, especially when I get that player on my team that pulls an OMK un-ironically. But that isn’t a MM problem…it’s a problem with the quality of an increasingly larger portion of players. Folks use MM as a catch all to direct their frustration at, but it’s not a MM issue at all - it’s an issue with the fact that most of us (myself included) aren’t good enough to overcome being put at an immediate disadvantage without significant help from teammates. When we get put in a disadvantage by the bad or unselfish play of one or two players, it’s infuriating and makes the game not enjoyable. BUT THAT ISN’T A MATCHMAKING PROBLEM!!!!


Edited by j_rod, 13 October 2021 - 06:16 PM.

Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 


dangerousdan26 #1828 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:47 PM

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Jrod, insulting me lacks maturity and that's why I suggest you grow up.

If playing tier 7 against tier 8 is clubbing, then I am guilty.

Have a nice day and don't write to me again on this topic.  We will agree to disagree



dangerousdan26 #1829 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:49 PM

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Crusader 6, stay in school kid

_Crusader6_ #1830 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:52 PM

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View Postdangerousdan26, on 13 October 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Crusader 6, stay in school kid


Yes at 51 I clearly stay in school.   If you’d like to remain a poster on this site, I suggest you re-evaluate how you want to interact here, and drop the insults. 


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Droodles_Little_Noodle #1831 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:53 PM

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View Postdangerousdan26, on 13 October 2021 - 10:56 AM, said:

Bellator,
I would point out that others started the so-called school insults which I agree is very childish.  I shall endeavor to take the high road and ignore the insults.

A very large portion of the players believe MM is broken or even rigged.  I would not use the word rigged but I believe there are "manipulations" which have an effect on outcomes.  Until such time as WOTB gives more transparency in to the MM software, we will never know how much manipulation occurs and folks will speculate using anecdotal observations.  The biggest issue for unfair MM is that WOTB MM doesn't consider the skill of players.  WOTB has actually told us that.  That fact, I believe, results in lopsided games.  We've all experienced the 7-0 or 6-1 game outcomes.  I have noticed this is really amplified when there are platoons playing.  It is my observation that players who choose to play together in a toon are roughly the same WRs and therefore the possibility that toons are mismatched (60% WR toon versus 40% WR toon) really leads to a lopsided match.

PS did you mean "hatter" or "hater"?    

Go Navy!    

You sound like the kid here. If anything you're mostly likely a 14 year old kid who thinks he knows everything.


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Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.

The more you take, the less you have.

 


j_rod #1832 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:53 PM

    Quit being a Karen!

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View Postdangerousdan26, on 13 October 2021 - 12:47 PM, said:

Jrod, insulting me lacks maturity and that's why I suggest you grow up.

If playing tier 7 against tier 8 is clubbing, then I am guilty.

Have a nice day and don't write to me again on this topic.  We will agree to disagree


POINTING OUT THAT YOU PLAY LOW TIERS WHICH ARE TYPICALLY COMPRISED OF NEWER PLAYERS IS NOT AN INSULT!!!!!

 

As for you telling me to not write to you again - you’ve come on to the forums time and time again and complained about the same thing without doing any of the legwork to prove your point. Whether intentional or not, you are a troll and I’m going to continue to respond back as long as you come on here while pointing out that your argument isn’t even relevant given how you play the game. 

 

Now if you’d kindly respond back to the points I made, I’d greatly appreciate it. You continue to ignore anything of substance bc you’re incapable of putting together any sort of reasonable response. 


Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 


Droodles_Little_Noodle #1833 Posted 13 October 2021 - 07:06 PM

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View Postj_rod, on 13 October 2021 - 11:53 AM, said:


POINTING OUT THAT YOU PLAY LOW TIERS WHICH ARE TYPICALLY COMPRISED OF NEWER PLAYERS IS NOT AN INSULT!!!!!

 

As for you telling me to not write to you again - you’ve come on to the forums time and time again and complained about the same thing without doing any of the legwork to prove your point. Whether intentional or not, you are a troll and I’m going to continue to respond back as long as you come on here while pointing out that your argument isn’t even relevant given how you play the game. 

 

Now if you’d kindly respond back to the points I made, I’d greatly appreciate it. You continue to ignore anything of substance bc you’re incapable of putting together any sort of reasonable response. 

+1

 

You've made so many good points but this dude wont listen.


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Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.

The more you take, the less you have.

 


wrecker1968 #1834 Posted 13 October 2021 - 10:52 PM

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Oh brother, Cut the crap with the Blame game and insults all of you. And get back to the topic. If you guys want to trade insults direct message each other.

 

 SpartacusDiablo will be ashamed when he sees this.


Edited by wrecker1968, 13 October 2021 - 10:58 PM.


Droodles_Little_Noodle #1835 Posted 14 October 2021 - 02:07 PM

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View Postwrecker1968, on 13 October 2021 - 03:52 PM, said:

Oh brother, Cut the crap with the Blame game and insults all of you. And get back to the topic. If you guys want to trade insults direct message each other.

 

 SpartacusDiablo will be ashamed when he sees this.


Spartacus diablo was already ashamed when I started typing on the forums


Unicum, Don't Unicum

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.

The more you take, the less you have.

 


NUBKiller2021 #1836 Posted 21 October 2021 - 04:46 AM

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Relatively new to this but I do think matchmaking is poor!

whatzup22 #1837 Posted 21 October 2021 - 05:01 AM

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View PostNUBKiller2021, on 21 October 2021 - 12:46 PM, said:

Relatively new to this but I do think matchmaking is poor!

uh oh



j_rod #1838 Posted 21 October 2021 - 05:09 AM

    Quit being a Karen!

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There’s this whole subset of players that want MM to do the work for them. These are the same players that I see consistently playing poorly, making bad decisions, and not contributing and instead of actually learning how to play the game competently, they want to “balance” out the teams so they can get carried. 

 

Honestly, what a crock of sh*t. We all draw bad players and there are some players that should probably be removed from the standard queue, but beyond that, those of you that are whining about MM just need to quit playing so ****** poorly. 

 

Actually here’s an idea to improve the gameplay - every player under 50% and 200 damage/tier over the past 30 days gets put on a month probation where WG pairs you up with a unicum and all you can do is watch for that month. Talk about fair…I think that’s totally fair. Can’t play competently? No worries, you can watch. That sounds perfectly fair to me. 


Edited by j_rod, 21 October 2021 - 05:14 AM.

Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740

 

 


NUBKiller2021 #1839 Posted 21 October 2021 - 05:56 AM

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View Postj_rod, on 21 October 2021 - 05:09 AM, said:

There’s this whole subset of players that want MM to do the work for them. These are the same players that I see consistently playing poorly, making bad decisions, and not contributing and instead of actually learning how to play the game competently, they want to “balance” out the teams so they can get carried. 

 

Honestly, what a crock of sh*t. We all draw bad players and there are some players that should probably be removed from the standard queue, but beyond that, those of you that are whining about MM just need to quit playing so ****** poorly. 

 

Actually here’s an idea to improve the gameplay - every player under 50% and 200 damage/tier over the past 30 days gets put on a month probation where WG pairs you up with a unicum and all you can do is watch for that month. Talk about fair…I think that’s totally fair. Can’t play competently? No worries, you can watch. That sounds perfectly fair to me. 

I don't wish to argue or be insulted but there are way too many knock out games for matching to be working properly.  Seems as if some are sensitive to this topic.  It's only a game! 



__V_O_P__ #1840 Posted 21 October 2021 - 10:17 AM

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View PostNUBKiller2021, on 21 October 2021 - 12:56 AM, said:

I don't wish to argue or be insulted but there are way too many knock out games for matching to be working properly.  Seems as if some are sensitive to this topic.  It's only a game! 


Nub, this is page ninety something of a thread of post after post of folk that come and say “MM isn’t good it should be better/ fairer / more balanced…” do consider that before you become all high and mighty.

 

on steam rolls (landslide victories) Posit1ve has a post and some analysis showing that in a game of 7 v 7 this is much more common than one might think (it’s the norm) due to hit point pools and the reinforcement effect of the loss of a tank.

 

on balancing this thread alone is testimony to the - pretty much - established fact that MM exists ONLY to get 14 players into a battle as quickly as possible with certain restrictions on tanks on each side. MM does not care about player skill in random battles.
 

Folks that insist that teams should be balanced have Ratings battles. Those that insist the game is bad because it does not balance teams or because dark forces are at work and they get bad teams - they said some bad about WG or don’t spend enough money - tend to be bad players at the game. They want better teams so they can win more without doing the work themselves.

 

many cannot articulate how teams should be balanced - apart from the obvious fact that balanced team would help them win more - but win rate or WN8 have been proposed. Long story short - balancing by skill level would reward worse players (by giving them an advantage) and punish good players (by stacking their team with bad players). Ultimately this would buff the win rates of bad players and suppress the win rates of good ones. And we’d all end up with 50% win rate. 
 

you're pretty much caught up now. And again when you strut in here with 500 battles under your belt and stats earned playing against bots at tier 4 don’t expect us to all cheer. 






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