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__V_O_P__ #2001 Posted 25 January 2022 - 12:45 AM

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View PostBellatormonk, on 24 January 2022 - 03:16 PM, said:

I had forgotten this existed.  I would love to hear the tinfoil attacks and defenses on this as of this year.  Now I will caveat this upfront by saying the overall opinion here was that Mad Games is affected and Regular is not based on their evidence and analysis.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=QxZtqKHEGuo

 

 


let’s review 3 things from the original article
 

1. “It is important to understand that so far there has not been any proof of WG rigging MM in Regular Battles. Instead, the data is clearly supporting the notion that Regular Battles are based on random MM within the MM rules (tier/vehicle class matching)”

 

2 “This data is therefore a strong evidence that WG has been applying “Skill-Based MatchMaking” (aka “Rigged the MM”;) for the special game modes (Burning & Mad Games).”

 

3 “Please note that the player submitting the replays has not been counted to the allied teams because she has not been selected randomly since we have selected her replay into the data set. When the player itself was added back to the allied team, the average WR difference between the teams for WR 55%+ players changed from -1.54% to +0.3% for the allied team.”

 

Overall these three points really mean that WG is balancing teams using Win Rate in Mad Games and Mad Games only. It can’t be ruled out that it does the same for fun modes - but Regular is not affected. So in mad games the better a player you are - the worse your team is - because otherwise the teams wouldn’t be balanced. Does this matter? I think it depends on why you play other game modes. It would be preferable for WG to be transparent about these sorts of things but WG doesn’t really have that sort of track record. 



Bellatormonk #2002 Posted 25 January 2022 - 07:28 PM

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"It would be preferable for WG to be transparent about these sorts of things but WG doesn’t really have that sort of track record."

 

I think this statement is just about all some people have been asking for to be admitted or acknowledged from all the MM discussions over all these years instead of the simple dogged denial and loyal defense of WG's methods and practices.

 

My God VOP...WW3 must be about to start if we have found a simple common ground of agreement.



__V_O_P__ #2003 Posted 25 January 2022 - 09:17 PM

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View PostBellatormonk, on 25 January 2022 - 02:28 PM, said:

"It would be preferable for WG to be transparent about these sorts of things but WG doesn’t really have that sort of track record."

 

I think this statement is just about all some people have been asking for to be admitted or acknowledged from all the MM discussions over all these years instead of the simple dogged denial and loyal defense of WG's methods and practices.

 

My God VOP...WW3 must be about to start if we have found a simple common ground of agreement.


erm…


Edited by __V_O_P__, 25 January 2022 - 09:18 PM.


JefeMac #2004 Posted 25 January 2022 - 09:22 PM

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View Post__V_O_P__, on 25 January 2022 - 12:45 AM, said:


let’s review 3 things from the original article
 

1. “It is important to understand that so far there has not been any proof of WG rigging MM in Regular Battles. Instead, the data is clearly supporting the notion that Regular Battles are based on random MM within the MM rules (tier/vehicle class matching)”

 

2 “This data is therefore a strong evidence that WG has been applying “Skill-Based MatchMaking” (aka “Rigged the MM”;) for the special game modes (Burning & Mad Games).”

 

3 “Please note that the player submitting the replays has not been counted to the allied teams because she has not been selected randomly since we have selected her replay into the data set. When the player itself was added back to the allied team, the average WR difference between the teams for WR 55%+ players changed from -1.54% to +0.3% for the allied team.”

 

Overall these three points really mean that WG is balancing teams using Win Rate in Mad Games and Mad Games only. It can’t be ruled out that it does the same for fun modes - but Regular is not affected. So in mad games the better a player you are - the worse your team is - because otherwise the teams wouldn’t be balanced. Does this matter? I think it depends on why you play other game modes. It would be preferable for WG to be transparent about these sorts of things but WG doesn’t really have that sort of track record. 

That’s interesting. I played MG almost exclusively over the week end. Never waited more than 5-15 seconds. In regular battles, ridiculous queue times of up to 25 mins+. 



 

“And yet when you hear people say ‘conspiracy theory’ that’s designed to pluck this little part of your brain that says, well, that thing’s not true,” said Attkisson. “And I always keep an open mind and say, that crazy thing that they say is a conspiracy theory may well have some truth in it.”
 


JefeMac #2005 Posted 25 January 2022 - 09:22 PM

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View PostBellatormonk, on 25 January 2022 - 07:28 PM, said:

"It would be preferable for WG to be transparent about these sorts of things but WG doesn’t really have that sort of track record."

 

I think this statement is just about all some people have been asking for to be admitted or acknowledged from all the MM discussions over all these years instead of the simple dogged denial and loyal defense of WG's methods and practices.

 

My God VOP...WW3 must be about to start if we have found a simple common ground of agreement.

Or the Rapture occurred…..:teethhappy:


Edited by JefeMac, 25 January 2022 - 09:22 PM.


 

“And yet when you hear people say ‘conspiracy theory’ that’s designed to pluck this little part of your brain that says, well, that thing’s not true,” said Attkisson. “And I always keep an open mind and say, that crazy thing that they say is a conspiracy theory may well have some truth in it.”
 


_Crusader6_ #2006 Posted 26 January 2022 - 05:02 AM

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View PostJefeMac, on 25 January 2022 - 04:22 PM, said:

That’s interesting. I played MG almost exclusively over the week end. Never waited more than 5-15 seconds. In regular battles, ridiculous queue times of up to 25 mins+. 


what tanks/tiers? Any settings set to limit the queue? 
   I don’t wait for much more than 10 seconds in Regular - same control off, both supremacy and encounter selected. 


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JefeMac #2007 Posted 26 January 2022 - 05:30 AM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 26 January 2022 - 05:02 AM, said:


what tanks/tiers? Any settings set to limit the queue? 
   I don’t wait for much more than 10 seconds in Regular - same control off, both supremacy and encounter selected. 

Pretty much all tiers VII and up. TT and Premium tanks. Only play on my iPad. Same control mode is on. MG helps by counting towards daily missions so when I play non-MG, (at least over the week end for say ratings mission) I can keep Enc and Sup both selected (btw:that’s getting to be a pain in the [edited], the “daily” mission for 32k dmg only in one mode or the other, not both) that way. When I have to do one or the other, I’m better off watching paint dry than try to get in a game for several mins. Never wait more than 3-7 seconds for MG. Weird. 


Edited by JefeMac, 26 January 2022 - 05:38 AM.


 

“And yet when you hear people say ‘conspiracy theory’ that’s designed to pluck this little part of your brain that says, well, that thing’s not true,” said Attkisson. “And I always keep an open mind and say, that crazy thing that they say is a conspiracy theory may well have some truth in it.”
 


KriticSoul #2008 Posted 26 January 2022 - 05:44 AM

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View PostJefeMac, on 26 January 2022 - 01:30 AM, said:

Pretty much all tiers VII and up. TT and Premium tanks. Only play on my iPad. Same control mode is on. MG helps by counting towards daily missions so when I play non-MG, (at least over the week end for say ratings mission)

Probably, thats why you need to wait 25 minutes or +, i dont know why in Mad games with that option in On you wait less, maybe when you will play in that mode, this option is ignored, idk


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_Crusader6_ #2009 Posted 26 January 2022 - 06:00 AM

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View PostKriticSoul, on 26 January 2022 - 12:44 AM, said:

Probably, thats why you need to wait 25 minutes or +, i dont know why in Mad games with that option in On you wait less, maybe when you will play in that mode, this option is ignored, idk

That is it.  
Same control doesn’t affect Ratings, Mad Games or the other ‘odd’ modes. 


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JefeMac #2010 Posted 26 January 2022 - 07:08 AM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 26 January 2022 - 06:00 AM, said:

That is it.  
Same control doesn’t affect Ratings, Mad Games or the other ‘odd’ modes. 


Hhmm, ok. Thanks ! 



 

“And yet when you hear people say ‘conspiracy theory’ that’s designed to pluck this little part of your brain that says, well, that thing’s not true,” said Attkisson. “And I always keep an open mind and say, that crazy thing that they say is a conspiracy theory may well have some truth in it.”
 


Bafh29 #2011 Posted 27 January 2022 - 05:59 PM

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The game is not rigged, per say. However, there are some stuff that grinds my gears. When you click "battle" you can see how many tanks are in the queue in each tier. If a tier is low in queuing players, you are automatically put in the higher tier queue. Consequently, you will be fighting higher tier tanks much more than usual. 

Also, there are many battles when there are more heavies in one team. From personal experience, the team with less heavies usually lose. It does not necessarily mean that the other team is set to lose, but in the current situation where you have so many clueless players, most team will not know how to tactically respond to such a situation. 

 

My 2 cents..



j_rod #2012 Posted 27 January 2022 - 06:34 PM

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View PostBafh29, on 27 January 2022 - 11:59 AM, said:

The game is not rigged, per say. However, there are some stuff that grinds my gears. When you click "battle" you can see how many tanks are in the queue in each tier. If a tier is low in queuing players, you are automatically put in the higher tier queue. Consequently, you will be fighting higher tier tanks much more than usual. 

Also, there are many battles when there are more heavies in one team. From personal experience, the team with less heavies usually lose. It does not necessarily mean that the other team is set to lose, but in the current situation where you have so many clueless players, most team will not know how to tactically respond to such a situation. 

 

My 2 cents..

 

The high tier/low tier issue is harder to solve bc it would require WG to continually track individual trends which would require a ton of data and I assume a lot of processing power.

 

Completely even teams by tank type is possible but 1) would increase queue times and 2) is seen by WG as being somewhat boring. 
 

If you're seeing low tier consistently, change tanks and tiers and it should help. I know it's not a perfect solution, especially if you're grinding a tank, but it is what it is.


Edited by j_rod, 27 January 2022 - 07:28 PM.

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Bafh29 #2013 Posted 27 January 2022 - 06:58 PM

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Thanks for your reply



_Crusader6_ #2014 Posted 27 January 2022 - 08:28 PM

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View PostBafh29, on 27 January 2022 - 12:59 PM, said:

The game is not rigged, per say. However, there are some stuff that grinds my gears. When you click "battle" you can see how many tanks are in the queue in each tier. If a tier is low in queuing players, you are automatically put in the higher tier queue. Consequently, you will be fighting higher tier tanks much more than usual. 

Also, there are many battles when there are more heavies in one team. From personal experience, the team with less heavies usually lose. It does not necessarily mean that the other team is set to lose, but in the current situation where you have so many clueless players, most team will not know how to tactically respond to such a situation. 

 

My 2 cents..

Playing solo in certain tanks seems to nearly force low tier -- I've had 100 games sets in some tanks where its been over 80% low tier.

   It happens, don't sweat it - MM hates everyone equally.

 

Tank Type Imbalances - the biggest issue is the HP imbalance that can occur with one team having more heavies, it's especially and issue if the team with less heavies does incredibly dumb stuff like try to out heavy a heavier team.

   The mobility that one gets from having more med lights can easily offset the HP by playing semi coherently.

 

 


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wrecker1968 #2015 Posted 28 January 2022 - 04:28 AM

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I just did 50 battles and had 35% win rate. 80% of the battles I did 1st or 2nd most amount of damage on my team (No I did not camp).

 There's no proof that match making is rigged but there is no proof that is not rigged. So we'll say it's not match making. And then you guys argue that it's not RnG. I am not a great player but I am not that bad. Above average. So my only conclusion is that it is a piss poor designed game.

 But I'm sure you guys will figure out a way to blame me. So I am to blame.

 This is why I do not get mad at AF k's and Yolo's. Because we forget that they probably went through this crap too and Got told that they were to blame by people like you.



j_rod #2016 Posted 28 January 2022 - 04:48 AM

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View Postwrecker1968, on 27 January 2022 - 10:28 PM, said:

I just did 50 battles and had 35% win rate. 80% of the battles I did 1st or 2nd most amount of damage on my team (No I did not camp).

 There's no proof that match making is rigged but there is no proof that is not rigged. So we'll say it's not match making. And then you guys argue that it's not RnG. I am not a great player but I am not that bad. Above average. So my only conclusion is that it is a piss poor designed game.

 But I'm sure you guys will figure out a way to blame me. So I am to blame.

 This is why I do not get mad at AF k's and Yolo's. Because we forget that they probably went through this crap too and Got told that they were to blame by people like you.


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___ImUrHuckleberry #2017 Posted 28 January 2022 - 05:20 AM

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View Postwrecker1968, on 27 January 2022 - 08:28 PM, said:

I just did 50 battles and had 35% win rate. 80% of the battles I did 1st or 2nd most amount of damage on my team (No I did not camp).

 There's no proof that match making is rigged but there is no proof that is not rigged. So we'll say it's not match making. And then you guys argue that it's not RnG. I am not a great player but I am not that bad. Above average. So my only conclusion is that it is a piss poor designed game.

 But I'm sure you guys will figure out a way to blame me. So I am to blame.

 This is why I do not get mad at AF k's and Yolo's. Because we forget that they probably went through this crap too and Got told that they were to blame by people like you.

 

Okay, the basic truth is that it's a team game. Which means you're potentially playing with 13 chimps. Yes, the game is rigged. But we all suffer through it exactly the same way. The super unis play like gods and still lose 30+% of the time. We mortals are going to suffer a lot more. No need for spooky algorithms or rigged mm, when the plain truth is we are fighting an uphill battle against other humans. We could either learn to temper our expectations and deal with what we can control, or just move on to a 1v1 type of game. I've been getting destroyed lately, yes teams are horrible, but all I can do is realize that I haven't positioned myself for the inevitable yolocide scout, and camping e100 in the first minute of the game. So then I get crossfired out, and i'm left scratching my head.

 

It is what it is.



wrecker1968 #2018 Posted 29 January 2022 - 12:03 PM

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Poorly designed game

__V_O_P__ #2019 Posted 29 January 2022 - 02:15 PM

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View Postwrecker1968, on 29 January 2022 - 07:03 AM, said:

Poorly designed game


post some replays on map inspector. let’s see. otherwise you are asking everyone to believe that this game is broken just for you. So instead of expending so much effort wondering how the game is broken, why not reflect on what you could have done to improve in a match. what poor trade did you make? Could you have rotated sooner? on the other hand if you have no enthusiasm for learning - and you’re just playing for giggles - then I don’t see why you would care about winning or losing or be posting here. 



wrecker1968 #2020 Posted 29 January 2022 - 04:17 PM

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