2135 replies to this topic

[Fu_Manchu_]

RemysCamp, on 14 April 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

YEA THIS THREAD IM SURE OPENS UP A TON OF DIFFERENT RESPONSES, I DONT EVEN HAVE TO SCROLL DOWN TO READ... I CAN ONLY IMAGINE!

 

ANY WAY, THIS IS JUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH ON THE [edited]"EQUAL/FAIR MATCHMAKING".

 

1. DAY IN AND DAY OUT I AM CONSTANTLY PART TEAMS WITH A BUNCH OF GROWN UP REJECTS AND FRANKLY IM OVER IT.. IT IS BECOMING A GOD DAMN CHORE TO EVEN OPEN UP THIS GAME AND PLAY ANYMORE BECAUSE I ALREADY KNOW WHATS COMING..

 

YESTERDAY I FINALLY FINISHED MY TWO WEEKS OF RECORDING EACH AND EVERY BATTLE. I WAS AFTER VERY SPECIFIC INFORMATION. I USED THE FOLLOWING INFO FOR EVER SINGLE BATTLE; DAMAGE TAKEN/GIVEN, KILLS, ASSISTS IF THERE WAS ANY, WHAT MAP/# OF BATTLES ON SAID MAP, HOW MANY TANKS WERE LEFT FOR EACH TEAM, AND A FEW OTHER STATS THAT HAVE NO RELEVANCE HERE THEY ARE JUST FOR MY OWN REFERENCE. SO HERE IS A VERY BRIEF LOOK AT THE TWO WEEK TIME PERIOD...

 

TOTAL BATTLES- 350 IN 2 WEEKS

TOTAL DAILY BATTLES- 25

TOTAL VICTORIES- 168

TOTAL LOSSES- 182

AVE. DAMAGE PER BATTLE- 1068

 

WITH THE ABOVE DATA AND MY JUST ABOUT AT 7000 TOTAL BATTLES THERE IS ROOM TO SAFELY DO THIS A TOTAL OF 20 TIMES. 20X350= 7000. SO TELL ME ITS RANDOM IS A LOAD OF BULL [edited]!! SO IN 20 SETS OF 350 BATTLES PLAYED IVE BEEN PLACED ON LOOSING TEAMS 52%+ OF THE TIME.. 

 

MY FEELINGS TOWARDS THE MATCHMAKING IS A COMPLETE JOKE AND ITS MADE THE GAME COMPLETELY UNENJOYABLE. WHILE TO ME I DONT GIVE A [edited]ABOUT THE FKNG WIN RATE % BECAUSE IT IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR OF IMPORTANCE IN THE GAME BUT WAY TOO MANY PLAYERS AFTER MATCHES WANT TO VERBALLY ATTACK SOMEBODY BECAUSE OF THE % THEY CARRY. THERE REALLY SHOULD BE A LEVELING SYSTEM SO MATCHES CAN BE CARRIED OUT WITH ALL PARTICIPANTS OF EACH BATTLE BEING GROUPED BASED OFF THEIR RESPECTIVE LEVEL # AND WITHIN SAY 10-20 LEVEL #'S JUST AN EXAMPLE.. MY WIN RATE % IS VERY HEAVILY IMPACTED BY THE INDIVIDUALS I AM PAIRED WITH WHICH ARE GOD DAMN MORONS MORE THAN 52% OF THE TIME.

 

THE MATCHMAKING WITH ALL PLAYERS FEELS SO RANDOM, YEAH RANDOM PEOPLE THAT HOLD A 55+% WIN RATE ARE RANDOM. THOSE PEOPLE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE A WIN RATE AS SUCH WILL CONSTANTLY GET PAIRED TOGETHER AND THIS IS WHY THERE ARE SOOOOO MANY FKD MATCHES ENDING IN 7-0 7-1 MAYBE 7-2 IF A SORRY [edited] TEAM IS SO LUCKY..

 

SO MY FINAL FEELINGS ON THE "FAIR MATCHMAKING" IS:

 

-ITS A LOAD OF [edited]!

-I FEEL THAT IF YOUR NOT ONE OF THE "LUCKY" PLAYERS THE MATCHMAKER HAS SELECTED TO BE PART OF WINNING TEAMS ABOVE LETS SAY EVEN 60% OF THE TIME THEN ITS OH WELL TOO BAD FOR YOU, BE PREPARED TO BE PART OF A TEAM FULL OF [edited]MORONS MORE THAN 50% OF TIME.

-WITH MY 7000 TOTAL BATTLES WITH 48% WIN RATE SO MORE THAN 52% OF THE TIME IM BEING PLACED ON A LOOSING TEAM! 20X350MATCHES THIS HAS HAPPENED..

 

IM TIRED OF BEING ON LOOSING TEAMS FINISHING 1ST OR 2ND AND STILL HAVING TO DEAL WITH [edited]THAT LIKE TO TELL YOU TO GO BACK TO CANDY CRUSH AND MAKE A COMMENT ON A 48% WIN RATE... WHAT THE F**K!?...

 

STOP WITH ALL THESE OTHER RANDOM UPDATES AND ADDRESS A SITUATION THAT COULD POTENTIALLY STOP WG FROM LOOSING SO MANY PLAYERS!!! LISTEN TO US!!!

 

 

 

I'm not sure why you're yelling, but I have one question: Since you went to the trouble of recording those battles, did you collect any data on them?

 

You say you were "placed" on losing teams, but what were the average win rates of the players on red and green (both with and without you would be helpful). How about the average number of battles for red and green players?

 

Just because you lost 52% of your battles, does not necessarily mean that you were "placed" on losing teams. Now, if the average win rates of your six teammates was significantly lower than the average win rates of your seven opponents, then you have something to stand on.

[Fu_Manchu_]

RedClay_7, on 14 April 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

I’ve been playing Blitz for over three years and have seen a lot of changes as we all have, many of them not good. The game really took a clear turn south with update 3.8 in May 2017. I don’t know what exactly transpired at the algorithm level but something did. Observable, documentable phenomenon that occurs over and over yet WG is deaf and blind to it and if it is brought up in discussions here or on FB some idiot always pipes up and says well it’s just you. It’s your skill or you just need to carry harder. I’ve played several games today and regardless of Tier played I was on teams that were slaughtered, game over in two minutes. No rhyme or reason. My teams actually had players with good win rates but we were steam rolled like noobs out of Tier 1. I was in one game this morning in my Jagpanzer E100 where we had five, yes five td’s on our team but the other team was composed of good medium tanks. We were deal clubbed. I’ve watched the past three days as shells I’ve fired from my jag E100 have bounced repeatedly off of Tier IX Leopard PTA’s. I have over 800 pen and they have paper armor. Go figure. Eventually someone else will release a game to directly compete with Blitz and it will be lights out.

 

What observable and document-able phenomenon are you referring to? The only times I have seen post actual data on matchmaking on this forum, their results have suggested that there is no problem and that the teams are, on average, basically evenly matched.

[PanzertroopenVT]

Needs platoon mate for 5 matches today. Anyone feeling froggy.?

[Bellatormonk]

IDGAF what anyone says.  The MM is rigged day to day to keep you below a certain WR no matter what you do.  I have had 20 some matches like this today anywhere from T3-8 nonstop.  I could barely keep a 50% WR because on the matches we won I carried the teams 80% of time and was carried by another player 20% of the time.  The losses were always completed in 2 minutes or less, this being the worst one of the 20.  In most cases 2-3 players had 0 dmg on my losing team.

 

Tried to give a fair shake.  Down .30 WR in the last 48hrs with nothing but window lickers nearly every match.  Uninstalled and wallet closed.  Might check back in a few month or more.  Enjoy to those who like playing losing matches to sheer stupidity on the part of 80% of the player base and call it "fun".

 

 

Edited by Bellatormonk, 17 April 2018 - 04:11 AM.

[NoobieDude]

ya gotta get good at this game. watch vids, platoon with some better players. ask questions on this forum. i personally feel that MM and RNG is weighted. but regardless of what i think. its the same for everyone.

[Herbie_N124]

I dunno, I thought there was something to rigged MM for a while.   I kept reading on the forum, watched vids, took some advice.   I swear it's been just a few weeks since I've gone from ~45% to nearly 54% WR.    
I guess the question to ask from the other side of MM is, why would this large developer on another continent choose to advance me and sink others?     

[Fu_Manchu_]

Fu_Manchu_, on 16 April 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

 

I'm not sure why you're yelling, but I have one question: Since you went to the trouble of recording those battles, did you collect any data on them?

 

You say you were "placed" on losing teams, but what were the average win rates of the players on red and green (both with and without you would be helpful). How about the average number of battles for red and green players?

 

Just because you lost 52% of your battles, does not necessarily mean that you were "placed" on losing teams. Now, if the average win rates of your six teammates was significantly lower than the average win rates of your seven opponents, then you have something to stand on.

 

Hmmm. Clueless rant about MM from a player with little to no ability to carry is followed by a simple straightforward question...no response. Color me shocked.

 

 

Herbie_N124, on 17 April 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

I dunno, I thought there was something to rigged MM for a while.   I kept reading on the forum, watched vids, took some advice.   I swear it's been just a few weeks since I've gone from ~45% to nearly 54% WR.    
I guess the question to ask from the other side of MM is, why would this large developer on another continent choose to advance me and sink others?     

 

The cheque was in the mail. Once it got there, you got the preferential MM.

 

But seriously, you are spotting more, doing more damage, surviving more and getting more kills. Makes sense that your win rate would go up. Of course, MM luck can have an influence too. You may have been getting unusually bad teams before and getting better ones now as well.

[Herbie_N124]

yessir.   I still have plenty of matches with morons.    I still have plenty of matches where I'm the 0 dmg moron.   I still get told to uninstall and sell my tank.  You can't win them all but I can't make sense of a rigged mm.  What's the motivation, and who/how are those picked to win and lose?   I stopped spending $ on this quite a while ago.   My WR just took some learning and practice.   ....now I'm sure it'll be back at 45% by next Tuesday.  

[NoobieDude]

Herbie_N124, on 17 April 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

I dunno, I thought there was something to rigged MM for a while.   I kept reading on the forum, watched vids, took some advice.   I swear it's been just a few weeks since I've gone from ~45% to nearly 54% WR.    
I guess the question to ask from the other side of MM is, why would this large developer on another continent choose to advance me and sink others?    

Fu_Manchu_, on 17 April 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

Hmmm. Clueless rant about MM from a player with little to no ability to carry is followed by a simple straightforward question...no response. Color me shocked.

 

 

 

The cheque was in the mail. Once it got there, you got the preferential MM.

 

But seriously, you are spotting more, doing more damage, surviving more and getting more kills. Makes sense that your win rate would go up. Of course, MM luck can have an influence too. You may have been getting unusually bad teams before and getting better ones now as well.

Herbie_N124, on 17 April 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

yessir.   I still have plenty of matches with morons.    I still have plenty of matches where I'm the 0 dmg moron.   I still get told to uninstall and sell my tank.  You can't win them all but I can't make sense of a rigged mm.  What's the motivation, and who/how are those picked to win and lose?   I stopped spending $ on this quite a while ago.   My WR just took some learning and practice.   ....now I'm sure it'll be back at 45% by next Tuesday. 

NoobieDude, on 17 April 2018 - 09:07 AM, said:

ya gotta get good at this game. watch vids, platoon with some better players. ask questions on this forum. i personally feel that MM and RNG is weighted. but regardless of what i think. its the same for everyone.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[___ez_e___]

The new meta is Carry Even Harder!  Lol

 

 

What used to be good enough to carry isn’t cutting it in today’s meta.   

 

 

You have to Carry Even Harder and that includes me.   

[Dan_Deerso]

RedClay_7, on 14 April 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

I’ve been playing Blitz for over three years and have seen a lot of changes as we all have, many of them not good. The game really took a clear turn south with update 3.8 in May 2017. I don’t know what exactly transpired at the algorithm level but something did. Observable, documentable phenomenon that occurs over and over yet WG is deaf and blind to it and if it is brought up in discussions here or on FB some idiot always pipes up and says well it’s just you. It’s your skill or you just need to carry harder. I’ve played several games today and regardless of Tier played I was on teams that were slaughtered, game over in two minutes. No rhyme or reason. My teams actually had players with good win rates but we were steam rolled like noobs out of Tier 1. I was in one game this morning in my Jagpanzer E100 where we had five, yes five td’s on our team but the other team was composed of good medium tanks. We were deal clubbed. I’ve watched the past three days as shells I’ve fired from my jag E100 have bounced repeatedly off of Tier IX Leopard PTA’s. I have over 800 pen and they have paper armor. Go figure. Eventually someone else will release a game to directly compete with Blitz and it will be lights out.

 

800 pen eh? Maybe you shouldn't be playing tier 10 if you can't even remember a reasonable number for pen values.

[Tackywheat1]

I had an all 50% and above team but was steamrolled by a 40%er team.. I'm still wondering what happened.......

[its_just_a_game_]

Tackywheat1, on 18 April 2018 - 03:39 AM, said:

I had an all 50% and above team but was steamrolled by a 40%er team.. I'm still wondering what happened.......

We 40%ers are full of surprises sometimes!

[12BravoWI]

Matchmaking - a couple of qualifiers before I comment - i am not too new (I have played over 10k matches), and most importantly, I am wearing my tinfoil hat in the correct, prescribed manner...

 

What gets me about mm is the horrible discrepancy in tank classes - too many heavy tanks on one side. I get it is based on win %, but how much different is it really between a high 40%er and a mid 50%er (like me).  Not much imo - maybe I was just carried by teammates more than the other guy.  In any event, I constantly see lately one team with a 2, 3, or 4 heavy tank advantage - that is a lot of hp to get through - especially if they are basically on the same page tactically.  Anyway,  I get it that when facing a bunch of heavies you should use your smaller tanks to their advantage, but that requires teamwork, which is sometimes an issue for the green team. In any event, it most often requires a super-duper Unicom effort to overcome all the heavies at the end of the match, and I find that is most often not in my bag of tricks.

[Kaos_Dynamo]

Just in a tier 8 match: I was the only %55. Reds had 2x %55, 1x %62. All other were upper %40s.

 

Huh? It seems Wargaming doesn’t do any matchmaking. Maybe start with some  matchmaking.

Edited by Kaos_Dynamo, 18 April 2018 - 10:58 PM.

[mbrcmf]

I used to worry about this. But I just play more. Go on a 19-2 run. Running random tanks. Went back to a tank I was losing on before the run, and suddenly I was a 50%er again.

[mbrcmf]

Tackywheat1, on 17 April 2018 - 10:39 PM, said:

I had an all 50% and above team but was steamrolled by a 40%er team.. I'm still wondering what happened.......

Seen this on average more recently  maybe not 40%,but overall the greens shouldn't have won but do  

[ZebraUp]

I don't know if it's rigged, but in 12 outta 14 battles today i was the ONLY one on my team with a 50+% winrate..  but to be fair, post battle i was looking at both sides and in nearly 1/2 of the battles both sides had large amounts of sub-50%'ers.

*sigh*

MM might not be rigged, but it certainly hates me.

Edited by ZebraUp, 19 April 2018 - 02:13 AM.

[Dan_Deerso]

ZebraUp, on 18 April 2018 - 10:08 PM, said:

I don't know if it's rigged, but in 12 outta 14 battles today i was the ONLY one on my team with a 50+% winrate..  but to be fair, post battle i was looking at both sides and in nearly 1/2 of the battles both sides had large amounts of sub-50%'ers.

*sigh*

MM might not be rigged, but it certainly hates me.

 

The simple answer? There's more of them, in more places.

 

The playerbase is slightly skewed, not a perfect bell curve. Statistically, the 40-48% crowd outnumbers the 50-60% crowd. Part of this is due to draws bringing the average server winrate to 48%, part of it is due to most good players having 20,000 games or more, where most 40-48%ers are below 10k.

 

Here's a nice graphic I found a while back, pretty sure it's the Russian WoT server demographics: 

 

Now, the data set is different, but Blitz, being similar but a more individual-contribution-sensitive, would see the chart widened and flattened out a bit, but still centered on around 47-48%. As you can see, the number of players above 50% only make up about a third of the total players on this graph. In Blitz, this means you'll frequently see matches with about 4 'decent' players, depending on tier.

 

A slight majority of 'decent' players will tend to stick to tiers 8 and 10, for some reason, venturing out to other tiers just to play premiums and grind lines. Another portion will be seal clubbing. A decent portion of both have supremacy mode off. So, if you're seeing tier 9s or tier 5s or some other tier, 4 maybe, you'll definitely be seeing more terrible players than you know what to do with. You'll see a dozen 46%ers to each 55%er out there. Such is the playerbase.

[honey_badger82]

So after reading through this thread and hearing all the "carry harder" and "55% + wr players are rare" comments I decided to do a study myself and record data from matches. The original plan was to do 20 battles a day in one tank only for 2 weeks and record the data after each battle. Well even though most battles lasted under 4 minutes it took 15 to 20 min per battle to collect the data I needed for my study. I ended up just doing 20 battles because right now I don't have that much time but what I found just confirmed what I already knew, it was more to prove to those that require the proof to see reason. At some point I am sure I will pick back up with my study.

Now Mondays for me are typically not good in terms of WR but this one went exceptionally well. It's typically Friday thru Sunday that I do the most damage to my own WR. Here is s link to the raw data I collected per match and my hasty synopsis at the end.

http://imgur.com/a/st5CbNR well you will have to copy and paste it since I can't get it to hyperlink.

Ultimately 80% of battles went to the team with the higher average winrate with relatively easy reasons why they didn't the other 20% of the time (either Yolo, good player in a tank he sucks in or best players getting smoked off the bat, i.e. salty pickle who I was elated to see on my team until he went poof)

55%+ WR players are not so rare and MM tends to keep these guys together (had very few toons)

Most unicums play meds and lights, very fast maneuverable tanks so it's easy to say "carry harder" while they hang back and vamp off the team and either pull the win off while the rest are in smoking ruins or get 6 on 1ed then complain the team sucks. It seems even at their level of play they sometimes can't count and realise reds 4 flanker outnumber our 2 or that our 4 heavies will never get up the hill in time to save them.

1st kill doesn't really mean much (one post on the forums says it determines a win 90% of the time) if 2 or 3 of your tanks get tore up to get that kill it is relatively meaningless.

Generally in my findings over not just these 20 matches but in all my play I find if there is a basic understanding of tactics in blitz as real life tactics have little meaning here then matches would be much more balanced. I think WG should publish their guides more often and not just the roles of a type of tank. Do a sidscrape guide, a when to flank and when not to flank guide etc. Every new player should get these in game notification center.

Flanking, yes it has been done without knowing where the enemy is before and worked but that is not the norm. As a combat arms soldier of 18yrs we generally only flank on a known enemy position. You MUST establish a battle line first then maneuver. Becasue if you run off blindly in the beginning you run into what is known as an ambush. Take it from someone who has been in an ambush for real, it' not cool and usually does not work out well. In WoT blitz it almost never does.

I know many more battles are needed to get real usable data, those who wish can extrapolate what they want from what I collected and if anyone wants to carry on if they have the time I can send you the excell format I used. I am rather interested in seeing this experiment done at T4 and 5, see how many seal clubbers are out there