1339 replies to this topic

[Fu_Manchu_]

honey_badger82, on 19 April 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

So after reading through this thread and hearing all the "carry harder" and "55% + wr players are rare" comments I decided to do a study myself and record data from matches. The original plan was to do 20 battles a day in one tank only for 2 weeks and record the data after each battle. Well even though most battles lasted under 4 minutes it took 15 to 20 min per battle to collect the data I needed for my study. I ended up just doing 20 battles because right now I don't have that much time but what I found just confirmed what I already knew, it was more to prove to those that require the proof to see reason. At some point I am sure I will pick back up with my study.

Now Mondays for me are typically not good in terms of WR but this one went exceptionally well. It's typically Friday thru Sunday that I do the most damage to my own WR. Here is s link to the raw data I collected per match and my hasty synopsis at the end.

http://imgur.com/a/st5CbNR well you will have to copy and paste it since I can't get it to hyperlink.

Ultimately 80% of battles went to the team with the higher average winrate with relatively easy reasons why they didn't the other 20% of the time (either Yolo, good player in a tank he sucks in or best players getting smoked off the bat, i.e. salty pickle who I was elated to see on my team until he went poof)

55%+ WR players are not so rare and MM tends to keep these guys together (had very few toons)

Most unicums play meds and lights, very fast maneuverable tanks so it's easy to say "carry harder" while they hang back and vamp off the team and either pull the win off while the rest are in smoking ruins or get 6 on 1ed then complain the team sucks. It seems even at their level of play they sometimes can't count and realise reds 4 flanker outnumber our 2 or that our 4 heavies will never get up the hill in time to save them.

1st kill doesn't really mean much (one post on the forums says it determines a win 90% of the time) if 2 or 3 of your tanks get tore up to get that kill it is relatively meaningless.

Generally in my findings over not just these 20 matches but in all my play I find if there is a basic understanding of tactics in blitz as real life tactics have little meaning here then matches would be much more balanced. I think WG should publish their guides more often and not just the roles of a type of tank. Do a sidscrape guide, a when to flank and when not to flank guide etc. Every new player should get these in game notification center.

Flanking, yes it has been done without knowing where the enemy is before and worked but that is not the norm. As a combat arms soldier of 18yrs we generally only flank on a known enemy position. You MUST establish a battle line first then maneuver. Becasue if you run off blindly in the beginning you run into what is known as an ambush. Take it from someone who has been in an ambush for real, it' not cool and usually does not work out well. In WoT blitz it almost never does.

I know many more battles are needed to get real usable data, those who wish can extrapolate what they want from what I collected and if anyone wants to carry on if they have the time I can send you the excell format I used. I am rather interested in seeing this experiment done at T4 and 5, see how many seal clubbers are out there

 

Interesting results. As you say, 20 battles is a small sample, but I am always interested to see the results when people collect data.

 

I tried collecting data a couple months ago. I would screenshot the end of game results and then fill in my spreadsheet the next day at work. But it ended up being a massive undertaking and I quickly gave up.

[honey_badger82]

Fu_Manchu_, on 20 April 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

Interesting results. As you say, 20 battles is a small sample, but I am always interested to see the results when people collect data.

 

I tried collecting data a couple months ago. I would screenshot the end of game results and then fill in my spreadsheet the next day at work. But it ended up being a massive undertaking and I quickly gave up.

The only problem with doing the data processing later was that some data I was after would change. For instance the first 2 matches has a su-100y that was same player in both matches on red and in the time it took me to collect the data from match one he had done 2 more matches increasing his battle count in both tank and in general. Battle count in tank was important to me as a 60% wr player with just 20 battles in a tank and 33% WR in it is not an accurate capture of his skill in that tank. Also I needed to at minimum get the first kill, yolo and afk count down while I remembered. I was amazed in 20 battles we didn't have any afk just a few late starts and very few yoloed. One match each team had 2 yolo, ours to their main force and theirs to ours so I considered it a cancel.

[Fu_Manchu_]

honey_badger82, on 20 April 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

The only problem with doing the data processing later was that some data I was after would change. For instance the first 2 matches has a su-100y that was same player in both matches on red and in the time it took me to collect the data from match one he had done 2 more matches increasing his battle count in both tank and in general. Battle count in tank was important to me as a 60% wr player with just 20 battles in a tank and 33% WR in it is not an accurate capture of his skill in that tank. Also I needed to at minimum get the first kill, yolo and afk count down while I remembered. I was amazed in 20 battles we didn't have any afk just a few late starts and very few yoloed. One match each team had 2 yolo, ours to their main force and theirs to ours so I considered it a cancel.

 

I agree. If I could have kept up with the data collection, it wouldn't have been all that bad. I could have lived with a 1 day lag in the data, since it would have applied to all players. But that lag just grew and grew, and was a major contributing factor to my decision to stop.

[LtRaseiniai]

I just had a game where I was the only player with more than 667 games.

Wow ...

 

[Doc_01_]

All I know is that after I reach a certain W/R I will lose about 90% of the matches until I hit a certain lower W/R it has happened for a long time so go figure

[BattChiefJoe241]

MarBearCat, on 02 February 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

 

I don't understand what Circonflex is barking about. Is he wanting +1/-1 like we have?

 

And I thought WOT was +3/-3?

 

 

I don't understand his point. I believe he's being sarcastic about 2/2 being great, but why?

 

​I love that cat in the box, I have 4 cats and a dog., Most of the time the dog thinks he is a cat. When a pkg comes in and you open the box he is the first to  get it. My dog eats catnip and chases the laser all the time, the cats cant play because of the dog lol. I love your cat video. Joe

[Flexsphincter2]

example # 666  :   green team 19,000  total team battles , red team  90,000 total team battles... don't have to wonder why green got steam rolled . reds total experience in WOTB  is 4 times than that of green team.

[AllahuSnakbar]

I'm still pretty new to the game but please tell me the matchmaking and teams gets better.  I've only played 20 or so games and I've already been pushed into enemy fire three times.

[Herbie_N124]

AllahuSnakbar, on 30 April 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

I'm still pretty new to the game but please tell me the matchmaking and teams gets better.  I've only played 20 or so games and I've already been pushed into enemy fire three times.

 

In comparison to the forum guys here I'm still relatively new too, but I can tell you I think tier VI is the sweet spot.   I've only gotten up to VIII but there is where all the premium heavies are, I like mediums and my T-44 is adrift in a sea of buffed, gold-purchased, heavies.   The teams are a mess in VIII too, where your team will consist of either 30K battle vets, or 100 battle nubs who spent $40.    Seems more often the vets are on red, too  

As far as the rigged MM theory, I think it only seems rigged the more you try to improve WR.    There are going to be wins, losses, and streaks of both.   it is funny tho, my periodic winrate looks like an EKG.   Gotta be The Man keeping me a 46%. 

[Andromeda_74]

How’s this for MM

 

 

 

 

[Fu_Manchu_]

Andromeda_74, on 01 May 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

How’s this for MM

 

 

 

 

 

Did you win? I had a green team of all heavies a month or so ago, and we got annihilated. IMO, having that many heavies puts you at a disadvantage due to reduced ability to spot and poor mobility to respond to a fluid battlefield.

[AllahuSnakbar]

Still getting trolled.  The amount of bad players is mind blowing.  It's like they don't even want to shoot tanks...they just want to see how many tanks they can fit into the capture circle.

[Herbie_N124]

the pain of tier VIII is real.    Fought 100 battles in my VK 30.02(D) to earn the Indien-Panzer, maintained a 55% WR in the VK at 100 battles.   

Five fights in the Indien, 0 wins.  instantly no one on your team knows what they're supposed to do.   

Maybe I'm veering off of the MM topic, but I also couldn't pen several heavies almost anywhere with APCR.    I just got to listen to a dead teammate (first YOLO death, too) tell me I'm trash as I could neither outrun nor pen the IS-3 running me down.  

[Andromeda_74]

Fu_Manchu_, on 02 May 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:

 

Did you win? I had a green team of all heavies a month or so ago, and we got annihilated. IMO, having that many heavies puts you at a disadvantage due to reduced ability to spot and poor mobility to respond to a fluid battlefield.

 

nope. We got destroyed. 

[MarBearCat]

BattChiefJoe241, on 29 April 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

 

​I love that cat in the box, I have 4 cats and a dog., Most of the time the dog thinks he is a cat. When a pkg comes in and you open the box he is the first to  get it. My dog eats catnip and chases the laser all the time, the cats cant play because of the dog lol. I love your cat video. Joe

 

Not bad for a cat (me) with 0 Situational Awareness. 

[honey_badger82]

Like I have said before, I do agree the MM system is broke but being that it is and many, many people complain about it with WG doing nothing about it I doubt they ever will. So it is up to us as a community to do what we can with the sh*t sandwich we have. So I may not be the greatest player but to all those reading this hopefully there are some that could use these pointers to help deal with the garbage MM throws at them.

1. Look at the team composition once your locked into a battle for both green and red, start figuring out where you fit in. If red has 2 heavies and the rest are lights and meds then 9 out of 10 times all red will go they way their flankers point. If green has just 2 or 3 and go towards the flank from start you will die before heavies get there! It's simple math, go towards where your team is strongest and support, make them come to you. If your a higher tier heavy your front line, lower tier 2nd line (usually), be reactive and ready to help if flanked or someone punches through the front line. If there are at least 2 lines of effort then front line can continue fighting to the front and not have to turn and face whoever just punched through becasue they have a team watching their backs.

2. Know your tank roll! A med or light doesn't mean zerg to your death as soon as "go" appears, hang back behind the heavies if you have them and off to the flanking side. Let the battle develop, wait for more than 1 red to appear (usually bait) before maneuvering a flank. A flank isn't always a bold maneuver, it sometimes is simply guarding it from reds fast movers.

3. Focus on causing more damage than you receive every battle. This goes with knowing your tanks strengths and weaknesses. Don't sit out in the open, aim your shots when all possible (sniper view) and carry several rounds of all types you can. A tier 6 light can take out a tier 8 heavy from the front if that heavy has single digits of hp and you use a HE round. APCR or HEAT is good for when they have a bit more health but can be finished in one well aimed shot. It's a bit wasted on a full health Lowe or ISU-152.

4. Use your quick commands. This lets your team know who your targeting to focus fire on 1 target. It lets them know when your reloding and ready to fire. I hate nothing more when I give the targeting signal followed by the ready to fire and a team member drives in front of me and eats my shot.

5. Don't get tunnel vision. Keep situational awareness by checking the mini map every few seconds. Fire, pull back behind cover, check map and determine if you need to relocate. Don't drive in your sniper view as you can't see where your going and often drive right out in the open or into something. A few second hang up on a piece of terrain can be fatal.

These are just a few pieces of advice and there is a lot more I can elaborate on each point. Problem is a lot of advice in this game is situational related but in general I believe the tips above apply to most matches. I find that I am my biggest enemy when it comes to my WR. I could easily have a 60% if I didn't doggedly play match after match in a tank that it just isn't it's day to win in. I try to shoot for no more than 3 losses before I switch tanks but sometimes my frustration gets the best of me and I am pretty stubborn. Finally in this long post the addage carry harder is true. Sometimes it doesn't work no matter how hard you carried but take satisfaction in the fact you just smashed. Here are a couple of screenshots for carried hard loss and carried hard win.

http://i.imgur.com/RuUk22a.jpg 
http://i.imgur.com/JRLkVNy.jpg

(Can someone tell me how to hyper link here? Lol)

[CA_vampire]

Andromeda_74, on 01 May 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

How’s this for MM

 

 

 

 

 

The type of vehicles says nothing. Assume 7 heavies vs 7 lights. Who is going to win? Depends. If all 7 heavies are 30% WR players and all light drivers are 60% drivers, then the lights will win easily. Many battles are unbalanced because all the good players are in the same team, not because one team has 1-2 heavies more. 

 

 

[specialist5]

Why is it so bad for the events?  I play 4,5 and 6 tiers. Wow is it tough. Three days gone from 55.63 to 55.29. When I play 4 its mostly 5s play 5s mostly 6s play 6s mostly 7s. I play DW2, KV1, and T150 or Kuro. Score good with DW2 AND KV1 fair with T150. Not good with Kuro. (don't play it much.) Today with KV1 in 3 games met up with 2 kv1 and 2 su and T1heavy.  Don't really understand M M but I guess it could be improved like most things. Why don't WG look at it more and help the players? I use to get more wins in a row now its more looses in a row. Does it all boil down to the money? We are the profit and they are the overhead but sometimes the profit gets tired of spending. Honestly I don't know how to fix it. Some say it is fine the way it is BUT everything can be better. I hope that they will keep finding ways to improve it.  LOL Deaf ears I guess.    

[___ez_e___]

I’ve been thinking about the current game environment and I do wonder how update 3.8 has changed the player base.  

 

1.   We know that since 3.8 there has been a high level of attrition of experienced players. 

2.   The player base has had an influx of inexperienced players

3.   The game dynamics changed significantly with 3.8.  

 

 

So the questions we need to resolve in order to understand the player base are:

 

1.  What is the current mix of players in terms of battle count and battle proficiency.  

2.  Are new players being encouraged to learn the game or encouraged to spend.  

3.  At what point should the new influx of player become somewhat skilled based on pre 3.8 update vs post 3.8 update.  

 

 

I definitely think something is very different in how new players are being programmed to play the game.    I think they are being programmed to spend and advance levels to get that shiny new tank.  

 

I would like to think eventually we will have a reasonably skilled player base, but based on the current dynamics, I’m not so sure. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ___ez_e___, 09 May 2018 - 11:33 PM.

[Dmopans]

Anyone up for rigging matches?