1178 replies to this topic

[__Crusader6__]

Icefang50, on 06 May 2019 - 03:25 PM, said:

 

the que was low on tier 3 tanks, and I’m sure Bushka has a high battle count...

Bingo.  

 

 However his comments show that at some points in time all of us start to don tinfoil hats even for a brief moment.  The key about matchmaker is to remember random does not mean fair or balanced for specific matches or for short periods of time. All it means is overtime you as an individual player will generally see the same sorts of players on red and green as everyone else. Thus the only difference is what yourself bring to the table. 

 

 

[Icefang50]

__Crusader6__, on 07 May 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

Bingo.  

 

 However his comments show that at some points in time all of us start to don tinfoil hats even for a brief moment.  The key about matchmaker is to remember random does not mean fair or balanced for specific matches or for short periods of time. All it means is overtime you as an individual player will generally see the same sorts of players on red and green as everyone else. Thus the only difference is what yourself bring to the table. 

 

 

 

I thought my post could be taken either way...one hand Bushka was tired and on tilt with teammates, on the other hand he knows WG better than most and what they are capable of.

 

to me it goes back to what is the definition of “rigged”. I do not think that MM is manipulated against a specific player, but I do believe WG manipulates MM (same for all except under or over 5000 games ) to achieve “their” sense of balance/fair play. This may impact you specifically depending on what tank/tier/type of tank you are playing. And I believe in August of 2018 that they implemented some MM algorithms to test their changes to MM in upcoming updates - so they may run these tests from time to time and they do not communicate these tweaks for obvious reasons. 

 

No one wants to believe in manipulated MM when things are going well, but to me this would be just as unfun. 

[j_rod]

__Crusader6__, on 07 May 2019 - 05:02 AM, said:

Bingo.  

 

 However his comments show that at some points in time all of us start to don tinfoil hats even for a brief moment.  The key about matchmaker is to remember random does not mean fair or balanced for specific matches or for short periods of time. All it means is overtime you as an individual player will generally see the same sorts of players on red and green as everyone else. Thus the only difference is what yourself bring to the table. 

 

 

 

I think this is the point that's being missed. Regardless whether or not there is or isn't dynamic MM or RNG, in all likelihood it's applied evenly so everyone has the same chance to overcome it...or not.

[jlhtampa]

j_rod, on 07 May 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

 

I think this is the point that's being missed. Regardless whether or not there is or isn't dynamic MM or RNG, in all likelihood it's applied evenly so everyone has the same chance to overcome it...or not.

 

I don't believe that for a second

[SpartacusDiablo]

jlhtampa, on 11 May 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

 

I don't believe that for a second

Of course you don't.

[Bellatormonk]

SpartacusDiablo, on 11 May 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

Of course you don't.

 

Why should he?

[j_rod]

Bellatormonk, on 11 May 2019 - 12:54 PM, said:

 

Why should he?

 

Why shouldn't he? We can play this game all day long.

 

If MM/RNG isn't the same for everyone, please explain how it it's different for different people.

[__Crusader6__]

j_rod, on 11 May 2019 - 06:09 PM, said:

 

Why shouldn't he? We can play this game all day long.

 

If MM/RNG isn't the same for everyone, please explain how it it's different for different people.

 

Because they don’t understand they bring their team down. 

    Take jlhtampa above - utterly awful past tier 6, yet complains when getting ruined in 7-10.  

https://www.blitzstars.com/player/com/jlhtampa

  Of course they feel it’s rigged, they don’t understand they are just not pulling their weight. 

 

 

[Bellatormonk]

So when 6 out of 7 people don't pull their weight, then that 7th person is told to carry the team in most of these discussions.  That 7th person then complains, MM gave him 6 baddies compared to the Reds who had 5 out 7 who did pull their weight FTW.  However, since we are told MM does not take WR's into account...yet some people seem to feel or through observational bias that they are handed crap teams more often than balanced teams, the discussion is no longer about skill or who pulled their weight.

It is the general disbelief that MM DOES take WR into account despite being told it does.  It's an endless circle because no one had proof one way or the other besides believing what WG tells them because they won't actually show the real method on how MM is determined.  This is like telling an Agnostic, God exists because the Pope said so.

[j_rod]

Bellatormonk, on 16 May 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

So when 6 out of 7 people don't pull their weight, then that 7th person is told to carry the team in most of these discussions.  That 7th person then complains, MM gave him 6 baddies compared to the Reds who had 5 out 7 who did pull their weight FTW.  However, since we are told MM does not take WR's into account...yet some people seem to feel or through observational bias that they are handed crap teams more often than balanced teams, the discussion is no longer about skill or who pulled their weight.

It is the general disbelief that MM DOES take WR into account despite being told it does.  It's an endless circle because no one had proof one way or the other besides believing what WG tells them because they won't actually show the real method on how MM is determined.  This is like telling an Agnostic, God exists because the Pope said so.

 

All good points though I think you'd agree with me in that I trust data over someone's anecdotes. Most people, myself included, aren't able to look at their observations over a period of time, instead picking and choosing the experiences that best suit their particular point of view. It's no different when a statistician uses a non-random sample set.

To those that argue that MM does take in to effect factors other than what they have stated, I'd simply ask - how do they think specifically think this is implemented and how is it different from one person to another?

[__Crusader6__]

j_rod, on 16 May 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:

 

All good points though I think you'd agree with me in that I trust data over someone's anecdotes. Most people, myself included, aren't able to look at their observations over a period of time, instead picking and choosing the experiences that best suit their particular point of view. It's no different when a statistician uses a non-random sample set.

To those that argue that MM does take in to effect factors other than what they have stated, I'd simply ask - how do they think specifically think this is implemented and how is it different from one person to another?

 

I have over 5k games of data logged. 

   I had one outlier batch of 500 where Red WR > Green WR including me. 

Other than that 1 sample (or 1/10th) my Green Team WR > Red WR. 

  In each sample Red WR > Green WR when I removed my own (and platoon partner if applicable)- however not by more than .2% 

 

That lead me to believe that MM is about as random as it comes at 500+ games, and also each individual players contributions matter a great deal more than some think.  

   

[CA_vampire]

...

Edited by CA_vampire, 17 May 2019 - 06:21 AM.

[erovi]

For the first time since I've been playing this game I kept track of how many times I got to be low tier in 100 consecutive battles. Turns out that in 61 of those I got to be low tier. I could go on counting, but 100 battles is a good number as to conclude that things are not as balanced as many swear they are. Furthermore, most of the time, I new in the first sixty seeconds whether we would win or lose, since not only would I get to be low tier but most teamates did not have much to offer, The score in this cases would turn out to be 7-0 up to 7-2, regardless of what my contribution was.

 

[The_real_Tbone]

I have proof MM is rigged.....in my favor. My 30 day WR is currently at 68.3%. There is no way I am that good. I’m a career 55%er. Now, all the sudden I just got gud? This may sound like a humble brag, but I am seriously not that good, I’ve just been on a lot of good teams lately. And there is no way that just randomly happened close to 200 times.

[Si1verBlood]

I am stuck at 54.50-54.75 wr and this weekend I got from 54.60 to 54.55....I sk big fat burritos

Didnt want to make a thread on it but still want to look for attention...plz make me feel better.

[The_real_Tbone]

Not looking for anyone to make me feel better, I feel pretty good about myself already—got a beautiful wife, good job, great kids and 55% WR.  I just thought I would post this since most of the tin foil hat crowd are complaining because their WR is dropping. My point is simply that it works both ways—sometimes MM messes with you, other times it anoints you as the chosen one. I fully anticipate several weeks of full on 40% potato yet to come.

[Bellatormonk]

21 games and 15% WR so far today.  I should have let my dog lick the screen and gotten the same results....better probably.

[erovi]

Tiers I-V have been conditioned to favor nubs. If you have more than 25K battles you will most likely be 60% assigned Low Tier each time you battle, thtat of which the probability of winning is less than 50/50 chance. Thanks to RNG, sometimes your controls wont respond normally, armor will fail, your shots will miss or do little or no damage, enemy shots will be enhanced (specially those coming from nubs), 50 meter range visibility conditioin will not work for you, crew experience will not kick in, APCR or heat won't have any effect on enemy armor, enemy shots will go through buildings and rocks, you will be destroyed by one lucky shot if youre the last in a 7-0 up to 7-2 game and it will become almost impossible to increase your WR once you're in the 50´s. is this fair? Of course not, but many will swear that the playing field is equal for all. The truth is you have to very naive or work for WOT to support this, specially since they refuse to give proof either way.

 

 

[Bellatormonk]

33 matches today and even at 60% overall, most of the matches were so bad..the last 5 losses made me want to physically vomit in disgust in looking at the number of battles and WRs on my teams.  4 of 7 people literally die in 45 secs or less..why would people even bother to play like that.  What enjoyment can they get pressing "Battle" and then dying in 45 secs...pressing "Battle" again and repeat for 50k+ battles?

[Bachus131]

jlhtampa, on 11 May 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

I don't believe that for a second

 

The other night a guy on my team was complaining about battle being rigged.  When I looked at the teams after the battle we had the highest average win rate, the highest overall win rate player, and the lowest win rate on our team was 3 points above their lowest.

So the battle was rigged  iIN OUR FAVOR but the 50%'ers on our team were so overconfident they lost anyway.