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Happy 100th Birthday, Global Communism!


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Blartch #1 Posted 03 November 2017 - 05:23 PM

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May it be your last as soon as possible. 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-communist-century-1509726265



Vater_Von_Tom #2 Posted 03 November 2017 - 05:44 PM

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View PostBlartch, on 03 November 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

May it be your last as soon as possible. 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-communist-century-1509726265

 

Our worry today is the home-grown variety.

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_The_Tactition_ #3 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:00 PM

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More concerned about Global Warming. By 2100 at this rate we are screwed.

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BlackDogD #4 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:02 PM

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View Post_The_Tactition_, on 03 November 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

More concerned about Global Warming. By 2100 at this rate we are screwed.

 

 

It doesn't exist. Your president says so.


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NateDawg2k16 #5 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:12 PM

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View Post_The_Tactition_, on 03 November 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

More concerned about Global Warming. By 2100 at this rate we are screwed.

 

More concerned about the people who don't believe in it like some of Cong*cough* and the presi- oh wait! I'll get a strike if I continue. 

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Rev_ianc_bell #6 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:45 PM

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View Post_The_Tactition_, on 03 November 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

More concerned about Global Warming. By 2100 at this rate we are screwed.

 

 

We're already screwed. Multiple critical ecosystems have been compromised beyond repair. Jet stream and other critical air and ocean currents are breaking. Probable "Blue Ocean Event" in Summer 2020-2025 will wreak havoc on food production. You think refugee problems are challenging now? Wait till the jet stream shuts off completely.

 

Florida won't be such a great vaction spot when that happens, either.


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Rev_ianc_bell #7 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:50 PM

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View PostBlartch, on 03 November 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

May it be your last as soon as possible. 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-communist-century-1509726265

 

Article makes same mistake most people make which is taking vanguard Bolshevism as all of communism, much like people take capitalism to be the only economic system to involve a market economy. Perfectly self-serving narrative for the journal of those who see anyone but the rich as a subhuman natural resource to be crushed in the money-mill.

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_The_Tactition_ #8 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:09 PM

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View PostRev_ianc_bell, on 03 November 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

 

 

We're already screwed. Multiple critical ecosystems have been compromised beyond repair. Jet stream and other critical air and ocean currents are breaking. Probable "Blue Ocean Event" in Summer 2020-2025 will wreak havoc on food production. You think refugee problems are challenging now? Wait till the jet stream shuts off completely.

 

Florida won't be such a great vaction spot when that happens, either.

There is some time to turn it around. By 2100, no hope will be left. I’m just happy I’ll die before then.


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outersketcher #9 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:27 PM

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global warming..

 

I roll my eyes.. 

 

remember the 70's? We were all going to be dead by the 90's from global COOLING?

In the 60's we were all going to be dead before the end of the millennium from overpopulation?

Or.. or.. that we would have no more oil by the end of the 80's? 

 

I am an environmentalist. But, I'm a REAL one. I don't follow the politically biased threats based on unreliable data models that are then used to manipulate the general population.

I agree.. waste management is a real problem. Pollution is a REAL problem. Overuse of land and poor management of farmland is a real problem. We need to save the planet. Protect the animals we live with. And learn to live in harmony with the ecology of the planet. 

 

But please.. if we could just find a way to stop using the environment as a heartless tool to serve goofy, political ideals, then maybe.. we can really get to work and accomplish something of real value. Basing our efforts on REAL results, REAL studies, and REAL science. 

 

Do any of you remember that stupid light blue line they painted all over the place in Santa Barbara to show the world where the new ocean level would be by the year 2000? Of course.. the oceans did NOT rise to that level. Now it's just another political embarrassment.

 

I don't buy the whole global warming political dogma any further now..  then I bought the global cooling threats and the overpopulation threats. 

 

 


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SpartacusDiablo #10 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:31 PM

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View Postoutersketcher, on 03 November 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

global warming..

 

I roll my eyes.. 

 

remember the 70's? We were all going to be dead by the 90's from global COOLING?

In the 60's we were all going to be dead before the end of the millennium from overpopulation?

Or.. or.. that we would have no more oil by the end of the 80's? 

 

I am an environmentalist. But, I'm a REAL one. I don't follow the politically biased threats based on unreliable data models that are then used to manipulate the general population.

I agree.. waste management is a real problem. Pollution is a REAL problem. Overuse of land and poor management of farmland is a real problem. We need to save the planet. Protect the animals we live with. And learn to live in harmony with the ecology of the planet. 

 

But please.. if we could just find a way to stop using the environment as a heartless tool to serve goofy, political ideals, then maybe.. we can really get to work and accomplish something of real value. Basing our efforts on REAL results, REAL studies, and REAL science. 

 

Do any of you remember that stupid light blue line they painted all over the place in Santa Barbara to show the world where the new ocean level would be by the year 2000? Of course.. the oceans did NOT rise to that level. Now it's just another political embarrassment.

 

I don't buy the whole global warming political dogma any further now..  then I bought the global cooling threats and the overpopulation threats. 

 

 

Couldn't have said it better.


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Blartch #11 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:34 PM

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Well, goodness... that was a whole lot of whirligigs toted in to... I don't know, say that revolutionary communism DIDN'T kill more people than any other ideology ever in the history of mankind?

outersketcher #12 Posted 03 November 2017 - 10:12 PM

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snorts.. 

yer right. My apologies for my highly opinionated response to a topic unrelated to your original post.

 

question.. the article wont let me read it unless I join the Wall Street Journal.. whats it about?

 


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If you see me in the line up. Be aware, I won't go afk to preserve my damage. And I WON'T give you the win just cuz I'm the last one on my team still alive.

You're gonna have to come TAKE your win from me. I fight for the team.


Blartch #13 Posted 04 November 2017 - 12:04 AM

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Oh, no problems whatsoever.

Weird, I didn’t get that. Accessed the link through Drudge which may have bypassed wsj’s registration thing.

Rev_ianc_bell #14 Posted 04 November 2017 - 12:12 AM

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View PostBlartch, on 03 November 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

Well, goodness... that was a whole lot of whirligigs toted in to... I don't know, say that revolutionary communism DIDN'T kill more people than any other ideology ever in the history of mankind?

 

Ideologies don't kill people... people kill people!

 

Or...

 

I'm being intentionally facile of course. What're we looking at, something like 20-70 million people under China, Soviet Union and Cambodia alone and then a few millions scattered around in smaller regimes... It's a heck of a lot. Now that includes man-made famines like the Lysenkoist agricultural revolution where people were forced to do ludicrous things to their crops and then... well, died of starvation.

 

Maybe not as many as were killed as a result of the colonial endeavours of the absolutist European monarchies, often under forms of early capitalism, but without reliable population statistics... who knows, could be in the hundreds of millions, could be just a handful of tens of millions.. justifed under monarchy, capital and religion... an then millions died in the religious wars in Europe after the reformation: do we think about that? Millions continue to die preventable deaths for the profit of few, is that LESS bad because... it's some less tens of millions... maybe.. are we keeping tabs of which ideology caused each individual death?

 

Seems a bit silly to yardstick ideologies on how many millions  of people they are used to justify extinguishing. Ideologies are routinely weaponised. Let the ideology without sin cast the first stone.

 


Edited by Rev_ianc_bell, 04 November 2017 - 01:33 AM.

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Blartch #15 Posted 05 November 2017 - 02:42 PM

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OK, I still don't know why there's a Communist apologist here... maybe it's just my innate aversion to any system that, by design, removes the rights of people to decide how to live their own lives and coalesce all decision making into a single central political power.  Nothing compares to its resulting malevolence.  "Political Unity" always results in an awful lot of people being murdered.

 

I'd rather break my hand by mistake or by my choice to work harder than I can realistically handle than have my arm chopped off by gov't decree, you know?

 

 



Rev_ianc_bell #16 Posted 05 November 2017 - 05:11 PM

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View PostBlartch, on 05 November 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

OK, I still don't know why there's a Communist apologist here... maybe it's just my innate aversion to any system that, by design, removes the rights of people to decide how to live their own lives and coalesce all decision making into a single central political power.  Nothing compares to its resulting malevolence.  "Political Unity" always results in an awful lot of people being murdered.

 

I'd rather break my hand by mistake or by my choice to work harder than I can realistically handle than have my arm chopped off by gov't decree, you know?

 

 

 

You might be spending too much time reading editorials in  Drudge report if you read what I wrote and took that as a communist apology. Post 1 I'm being picky about language use and expressing irritation that the linked article explicitly uses language in a way that squashes precise and flexible thinking about political science. 

 

It suits the interests of neither the Drudge report nor the WSJ for people to have precise,  nuanced thoughts about politics let alone to recognise the hypocrisy inherent in the positions they claim to have. One should always be wary how these people are trying to shape and delimit your intellectual world.

 

 

Post 2 I say the three worst offenders of the communist regimes killed tens of millions of people and point out it seems both impossible and pointless to elevate one ideology over another based on bodycount when they both have bodycounts in the tens of millions and warn against ideologies period as they are readily and routinely weaponised. (I have other, more immediate issues with ideologies but they haven't come up in this conversation) 

 

Then you call me a communist apologist and... Kinda agree with my central point?

 

It also may be germane that from my perspective the Marxist ideology whatever it's relativele merits or lack thereof, were used as a catapult by Lenin et. al. to ascend to and maintain absolute power while playing lip-service to equality, democratic process and the goal of a stateless society... The same kind of cynical pursuit of narcissistic ends while playing to high-minded rhetoric is a nearly universal presence in civilisation. It says less about people's various ideals than it does about the vulnerability of populations to manipulation. 


Edited by Rev_ianc_bell, 05 November 2017 - 07:40 PM.

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Blartch #17 Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:44 PM

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Post 1 is bolstering a guy that states "global warming will KILLZ US ALL FIRST!!!!"

Post 2 is attempting to poison the source, and suggesting that Bolshevism wasn't congruous with Communism

Post 3 boils down to "...but all these horrible isms killed a lot of people, too, and killing lots of people isn't a good measure anyway"

 

So yeah, I made the whacko mistake of seeing that progressive line as Communist Apologism.  I must be brainwashed by Drudge.

 

Maybe I'll ask for help from Jerry Brown.  I hear he knows some stuff about washing brains.

 

There is very little to disagree with in your last paragraph... any system that gives a preponderance of power of one human being over another without the consent of one of those parties is doomed to violence and ignobility, and eventually to the trash-heap of history.  It's worth pointing out the essential failings of communism for the simple reason that an unreasonably huge number of young folks in AMERICA think it's something to aspire to and turn our nation towards, while similar despotic systems (which are universally reviled) haven't been a quarter as successful at rampant human exploitation and bloodshed.  That's my issue.



Rev_ianc_bell #18 Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:37 PM

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View PostBlartch, on 06 November 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Post 1 is bolstering a guy that states "global warming will KILLZ US ALL FIRST!!!!"

Post 2 is attempting to poison the source, and suggesting that Bolshevism wasn't congruous with Communism

Post 3 boils down to "...but all these horrible isms killed a lot of people, too, and killing lots of people isn't a good measure anyway"

 

So yeah, I made the whacko mistake of seeing that progressive line as Communist Apologism.  I must be brainwashed by Drudge.

 

Maybe I'll ask for help from Jerry Brown.  I hear he knows some stuff about washing brains.

 

There is very little to disagree with in your last paragraph... any system that gives a preponderance of power of one human being over another without the consent of one of those parties is doomed to violence and ignobility, and eventually to the trash-heap of history.  It's worth pointing out the essential failings of communism for the simple reason that an unreasonably huge number of young folks in AMERICA think it's something to aspire to and turn our nation towards, while similar despotic systems (which are universally reviled) haven't been a quarter as successful at rampant human exploitation and bloodshed.  That's my issue.

 

For clarity: when I said post 1 post 2 I meant MY first and second posts.

 

Moving on...

 

Hey, I hear ya buddy. I'm sure we both agree and disagree on lots of things but you might never know... I wouldn't want to take a very transparent stand on politics on these forums, it's just asking to be ruthlessly parsed by someone with a frustratingly obfuscated position!

 

 The purpose of the thread has honestly started to seem like an excercise in virtue-signalling. Utterly useless in warning anyone of anything. These forums are not supposed to be political so I've done my best to express what I think is the core lesson(s)

 

If this isn't "yay! F*** communism!" enough for you to be satisfied, given the rules of the venue, I'd really have to conclude that this IS in fact the intellectually lazy sin of virtue-signalling that we all get drawn into so easily. We owe it to ourselves to do better.


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Rev_ianc_bell #19 Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:41 PM

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PS: Marx was good-hearted but kinda a snob. People like myself he called "lumpenproletariat" - so low class he thought we would be incapable of political self-awareness or class-consciousness.

 

Lenin looks like he may actually be Satan.


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outersketcher #20 Posted 07 November 2017 - 04:57 PM

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View PostBlartch, on 05 November 2017 - 06:42 AM, said:

OK, I still don't know why there's a Communist apologist here... maybe it's just my innate aversion to any system that, by design, removes the rights of people to decide how to live their own lives and coalesce all decision making into a single central political power.  Nothing compares to its resulting malevolence.  "Political Unity" always results in an awful lot of people being murdered.

 

I'd rather break my hand by mistake or by my choice to work harder than I can realistically handle than have my arm chopped off by gov't decree, you know?

 

 

 

Right there with you man. I choose freedom to live my life the way I wish. Unfortunately, that's a dying ideology these days. People would rather submit like sheep to an all powerful government than do the work of running their own lives. 

....DamageDamageDamageDamageDamageDamageDamage....

also...

If you see me in the line up. Be aware, I won't go afk to preserve my damage. And I WON'T give you the win just cuz I'm the last one on my team still alive.

You're gonna have to come TAKE your win from me. I fight for the team.





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