Jump to content


M48 Patton vs the M60 "Patton"


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

iZero_ #1 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:42 PM

    Private

  • Players
  • 33762 battles
  • 8
  • [GLXY]
  • Member since:
    11-13-2013

How come the M48 Patton has the abilities to outplay the M60 in literally everything except credit making when the M60 is a main battle tank (MBT) introduced in December 1960. With the United States Army's deactivation of their last (M103) heavy tank battalion in 1963, the M60 became the Army's primary tank during the Cold War. Although developed from the M48 Patton, the M60 series was never officially classified as a Patton tank, but as a "product-improved descendant" of the Patton series. In March 1959, the tank was officially standardized as the 105 mm Gun Full Tracked Combat Tank M60.

The M60 underwent many updates over its service life. The interior layout, based on the design of the M48, provided ample room for updates and improvements, extending the vehicle's service life for over four decades. It was widely used by the U.S. and its Cold War allies, especially those in NATO, and remains in service throughout the world today, despite having been superseded by the M1 Abrams in the U.S. military. Egypt is currently the largest operator with 1,716 upgraded M60A3s, Turkey is second with 866 upgraded units in service, and Israel is third with over 700 units of Israeli variants.

"
The M60 looks, at first glance, very much like the 
M48 designed five years earlier, and for good reasons. It was nothing more than an evolution of the type but modified too extensively in too many ways to be considered by the US Ordnance a simple version of the latter. The OTCM (Ordnance Technical Committee Minutes) #37002 officially standardized the type as the 105 mm Gun Full Tracked Combat Tank M60. It was not officially named “Patton”, but it was the first officially named as a “main battle tank”, and not a medium tank. For three decades, the M60 was the workhorse of the US Army, USMC, NATO’s and Allied or affiliated nations to the western block around the world.

 

With more than 15,000 built over a large period of time, modernized in various ways, it was still in service in the US in 1997 and is still frontline with many armies in the world today, a testimony to the soundness of the original design. Although considered very much like a 1st generation MBT, it was modernized as a 2nd generation MBT, on par with its European counterparts of the sixties, the British Chieftain, German Leopard and French AMX-30. Now it is retired from US service, but some specialized variants are still active

In a general way, the M60 is very much an upgraded M48 and had the same issues and advantages which kept it in service for such a long period of time, even long surviving the introduction of the more advanced M1 Abrams. The M60 was criticized for its high profile and lack of cross-country mobility compared to European models, but it was also roomy and comfortable, proving time and time again its extraordinary aptitude to be upgraded, as well as its reliability and ruggedness.

Don't you think the M60 should be able to perform better than the M48 Patton if it's an improved version of the M48 Patton more or less? The M48 has better Engine power while the M60 on gets 50 more HP than the M48. Keep in mind that I'm only using some of the visible stats than you can find on --> https://wotblitz.com...a/vehicles/usa/

Edited by TheAnonymausNoob, 30 November 2017 - 09:01 PM.


Brundog #2 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:47 PM

    Woof Woof

  • Players
  • 46207 battles
  • 911
  • Member since:
    08-04-2014
DMG said the M60 patton is the best medium in the game and DMG is never wrong.

Posit1ve_ #3 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:51 PM

    Credits Master

  • Players
  • 77187 battles
  • 5,812
  • [_N_]
  • Member since:
    04-12-2011

The M60 in game is one of the first models of the M60, which is largely similar to the M48A5

 

That said, the premise of your question is wrong. The M60 is better than the M48 in game in pretty much every way

 

It's faster, has more gun depression, a faster rate of fire, more accurate, has better aim time, more HP, and the front hull is arguably better since the flat sloping plate can ricochet shells better than the eggshell shape of the M48, which can't be angled as effectively. 

 

The M48's only real advantage is that it has better side hull armor.


Edited by Posit1ve_, 30 November 2017 - 11:21 PM.

336 tanks in the garage!

 

Your local friendly credits guru: http://forum.wotblit...__fromsearch__1  (Most upvoted post on the forums!!!!)

Certified Batignolles Chatillon 25t addict


iZero_ #4 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:53 PM

    Private

  • Players
  • 33762 battles
  • 8
  • [GLXY]
  • Member since:
    11-13-2013
If you could explain why every player I have met, including myself prefers the M48 over the M60 would be great because thats what i really want here

Edited by TheAnonymausNoob, 30 November 2017 - 08:54 PM.


cheesehead247365 #5 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:55 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 14769 battles
  • 1,392
  • Member since:
    02-12-2015
Its a video game?

Gladsfur #6 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:56 PM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 108362 battles
  • 464
  • [INRI]
  • Member since:
    03-22-2015

The M60 is slightly better than the Patton except in front armor. I get more bounces with my M60. Here’s a link for more info.   

https://tank-compare.blitzstars.com/


Edited by Gladsfur, 30 November 2017 - 08:58 PM.


iZero_ #7 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:58 PM

    Private

  • Players
  • 33762 battles
  • 8
  • [GLXY]
  • Member since:
    11-13-2013

View PostBrundog, on 30 November 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

DMG said the M60 patton is the best medium in the game and DMG is never wrong.

 

DMG is not the truth bruh

 



seal7862_FA #8 Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:05 PM

    Legendary Guardian of Sealkind

  • Players
  • 19939 battles
  • 1,569
  • Member since:
    08-09-2015

View PostTheAnonymausNoob, on 30 November 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

If you could explain why every player I have met, including myself prefers the M48 over the M60 would be great because thats what i really want here

 

Overeliance on side scraping?

New to tier X? Here’s the meta, with the all new tier x tier list.

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/92877-the-ultimate-tier-x-tier-list/

#1 Tiger I Player NA, #4 Global

Seal Clubbing (v.)- The act of playing any strong or overpowered tank at tiers 1-6 for the purpose of dominating newer players.

Co-founder of the Training Room Police Department (TRPD)


CK_GoldenNuggets #9 Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:46 PM

    Official Tournament Trainer

  • Players
  • 31273 battles
  • 867
  • Member since:
    03-13-2015

View PostTheAnonymausNoob, on 30 November 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

If you could explain why every player I have met, including myself prefers the M48 over the M60 would be great because thats what i really want here

 

Its a tank you worked hard to achieve and therefore believe it is worth more and so you play better in it. Called the Placebo effect.
There is no statistical basis to prove that the M48 is better. The m60 is better in every almost every regard. 
However, if you check the player-base stats for the M60, you will see it is almost 5% worse than the m48 overall.

How is this possible, if the M60 is better in nearly every way. The answer: The players who have it are bad.
Not to point at you in specific, but there are no other 5% winrate drops like this at tier 10. All tanks are fairly balanced.
(Some exceptions aside) The next lowest tank is still an entire 1% above the M60.

Why is this? Its due to Wargamings specific criteria for who got the M60.
Some people say it was based on those who spent lots of money on the game.
Others say its for those who never got in trouble in the forums or something... who knows.
Point is, the overwhelming amount of players who play the M60, suck and without enough good players to raise the stats up, it seems as if the M60 is awful. It doesn't really matter what the playerbase stats say, there are a choice few unicums that got it and they show why the M60 is better than the standard m48. If you have one, its used in tourneys over the m48 for this reason.
People thinking that the m48 is better is just silly, people really need to learn how to play the tank better.
 

Edited by CK_GoldenNuggets, 30 November 2017 - 09:55 PM.

"Level of Unicums" - Zennosha:

http://forum.wotblit...__fromsearch__1


TengenToppaPotatoLagann #10 Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:14 PM

    ᵐʸ ʰᵉˢʰ ʷᶦᶫᶫ ᵖᶦᵉʳᶜᵉ ᵗʰᵉ ʰᵉᵃᵛᵉᶰˢ﹗

  • Players
  • 75783 battles
  • 4,794
  • [CRYBB]
  • Member since:
    03-31-2015

...OP seems horribly misinformed about everything, except how to copy&paste wiki articles. 

 

M48 patton has a better credit coefficient than the M60, which is a reward tank- not a premium.

M60 in blitz is also better in almost all aspects... the issue, as stated before, is that it was a gift. 

 

that means the players that are in m48s had to grind there, whereas the m60 was simply handed to a large number of potatoes so that the unicums that earned it could still have purple stats. 

 

by all means, though, buff the M60. i probably need more salt in my diet. 


View Post_YSoSerious, on 03 November 2021 - 10:33 PM, said:

Everything you need to learn from on the forum is already written down eons ago. What's left is a scattering of woe me hobos and wannabe Unis like me. Just do a search on the search bar, and soak up the knowledge from legends who have since moved on to Valhalla. All we can offer you is distilled regurgitation, or worse, incorrect advice.

Learn about HE


__Diego3211 #11 Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:25 PM

    Community Scumbag

  • Players
  • 31341 battles
  • 3,556
  • [ZR0]
  • Member since:
    07-13-2014
M60>M48 nuff said. I have both and the M60 is better in almost every department except hull armor.

2 Time Twister Cup NA Finalist

Las Vegas 17/Seattle 18 Mobile Masters Finalist

Spring Season Professional Champion

Too Many Tourney Championship Rings To Count


Rusty_Python #12 Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:43 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 8067 battles
  • 1,134
  • [MAHOU]
  • Member since:
    12-25-2014
Because WG

Stats

I write fanfiction and watch anime. Deal with it.

 

formerly _Maho_Nishizumi_212


_Yohtician #13 Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:55 PM

    The Best Tactician

  • Players
  • 31710 battles
  • 3,176
  • [REGI]
  • Member since:
    02-06-2015

View PostPosit1ve_, on 30 November 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

The M60 in game is one of the first models of the M60, which is largely similar to the M48A5

 

That said, the premise of our question is wrong. The M60 is better than the M48 in game in pretty much every way

 

It's faster, has more gun depression, a faster rate of fire, more accurate, has better aim time, more HP, and the front hull is arguable better since the flat sloping plate can ricochet shells better than the eggshell shape of the M48, which can't be angled as effectively. 

 

The M48's only real advantage is that it has better side hull armor.

Basically he just destroyed your thesis.


Member of the Training Room Police Department

My YouTube:https://m.youtube.com/channel/UChFwqqu30_epeLO0q-BKEFw 

 

Give us the IRON CROSS


tater_WOT #14 Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:59 PM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 86753 battles
  • 336
  • [III-P]
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

View PostCK_GoldenNuggets, on 30 November 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

 

Its a tank you worked hard to achieve and therefore believe it is worth more and so you play better in it. Called the Placebo effect.
There is no statistical basis to prove that the M48 is better. The m60 is better in every almost every regard. 
However, if you check the player-base stats for the M60, you will see it is almost 5% worse than the m48 overall.

How is this possible, if the M60 is better in nearly every way. The answer: The players who have it are bad.
Not to point at you in specific, but there are no other 5% winrate drops like this at tier 10. All tanks are fairly balanced.
(Some exceptions aside) The next lowest tank is still an entire 1% above the M60.

Why is this? Its due to Wargamings specific criteria for who got the M60.
Some people say it was based on those who spent lots of money on the game.
Others say its for those who never got in trouble in the forums or something... who knows.
Point is, the overwhelming amount of players who play the M60, suck and without enough good players to raise the stats up, it seems as if the M60 is awful. It doesn't really matter what the playerbase stats say, there are a choice few unicums that got it and they show why the M60 is better than the standard m48. If you have one, its used in tourneys over the m48 for this reason.
People thinking that the m48 is better is just silly, people really need to learn how to play the tank better.
 

 

There is one other thing, everyone that see's one tries to kill it because they didn't get one lol ! 


boppinbobby #15 Posted 01 December 2017 - 12:12 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 73932 battles
  • 1,847
  • [VIC]
  • Member since:
    12-31-2014
There are a high percentage of bad M60 drivers out there. and isn't there like 99 M60's on the NA server?  How many of these people do you know?

Big Gunz and Ammo Rackz.

HJG2; Hughmons are People too.



Icecuber07 #16 Posted 01 December 2017 - 12:36 AM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 13312 battles
  • 774
  • [AUDAX]
  • Member since:
    02-08-2016
lol idgaf what DMG says but the facts all do show that the Loyalty tank is better than the Normal player tank.

Silver_Lions #17 Posted 01 December 2017 - 02:43 AM

    Illegitimi non Carborundum

  • Players
  • 23805 battles
  • 1,282
  • [TOES]
  • Member since:
    11-22-2014

Well OP, let me put a bit of real life into this.  I drove and operated both tanks. The M48 was superior in several ways than the M60.  The engine would zoom, and get to top speed much faster than the 60. Suspension was excellent, and not equalled until the M1 came out.  The engine was much sturdier, the brakes and heaters worked every time, but it was cramped in the turret.

 

The M60, including the A1 & A3 variants, was a maintenance nightmare.  If you walked away from a perfectly fixed 60 at night, the next morning in the motor pool, something managed to break while it just sat there.  Brakes never worked, heaters never did either. Tracks would throw themselves off the tank if the wind blew in from the west.  The engine was junk, pure junk.  We fixed it so many times that we eventually resorted to sabotaging the engine by pouring gravel, bolts and screws down the oil intake drain, and run the engine full,speed.  When it blew apart, you got abrand new engine poppped in courtesy of Battallion Maintenance.  The electrical system was horrible, and the fire extinguishers would rattle around loose in the drivers compartment if you didnt tighten the hold down screws every 100miles or so.  However, the turret was roomy,  a loaders dream.  You could relaod that gun from the ready rack in four seconds if you were good.   Until the A3 was introduced, the computer, optics and gun were identical to the 48.   When the M1 came along, we couldnt get rid of those M60’s fast enough, and never wanted to go back in one after you rode an M1.  

 

My two cents



_Creed #18 Posted 01 December 2017 - 04:07 AM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 32221 battles
  • 268
  • [GLXY]
  • Member since:
    06-28-2014
Seeing that I have 76% WR and 2.9k avg dmg in the tank, I can justify why the m60 surpasses m48. I've played both tanks and the m60's gun handling is superb (aim time, depression, etc). Not to mention it has a more "trollish" turret in my opinion, while m48 does have that small but big enough cupola.  

OG TITAN

My stats: http://www.blitzstar...tankdominator_1

 

 


Frostbaka #19 Posted 01 December 2017 - 05:19 AM

    Cold as Ice

  • Players
  • 41630 battles
  • 3,688
  • [_V_]
  • Member since:
    06-13-2016

View PostSilver_Lions, on 30 November 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

Well OP, let me put a bit of real life into this.  I drove and operated both tanks. The M48 was superior in several ways than the M60.  The engine would zoom, and get to top speed much faster than the 60. Suspension was excellent, and not equalled until the M1 came out.  The engine was much sturdier, the brakes and heaters worked every time, but it was cramped in the turret.

 

The M60, including the A1 & A3 variants, was a maintenance nightmare.  If you walked away from a perfectly fixed 60 at night, the next morning in the motor pool, something managed to break while it just sat there.  Brakes never worked, heaters never did either. Tracks would throw themselves off the tank if the wind blew in from the west.  The engine was junk, pure junk.  We fixed it so many times that we eventually resorted to sabotaging the engine by pouring gravel, bolts and screws down the oil intake drain, and run the engine full,speed.  When it blew apart, you got abrand new engine poppped in courtesy of Battallion Maintenance.  The electrical system was horrible, and the fire extinguishers would rattle around loose in the drivers compartment if you didnt tighten the hold down screws every 100miles or so.  However, the turret was roomy,  a loaders dream.  You could relaod that gun from the ready rack in four seconds if you were good.   Until the A3 was introduced, the computer, optics and gun were identical to the 48.   When the M1 came along, we couldnt get rid of those M60’s fast enough, and never wanted to go back in one after you rode an M1.  

 

My two cents

 

LEGEND

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Join WoT Blitz's official English Discord server!!

PM me in-game, on the forums, or on Discord (FrostedAorta#7267) if you have any questions about WoT Blitz

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


danieljackspaniel #20 Posted 01 December 2017 - 05:43 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 16436 battles
  • 142
  • [TDB]
  • Member since:
    12-26-2015
I kind of got lost reading what was about 80% Wikipedia-copied/paraphrased history, but if what you're saying is that since the M60 was a more modern main battle tank compared to the M48A1 Patton, so that it should perform better than other medium tanks in the game, I'd like to add that there are also many other tanks in Blitz that would also be in your criteria for this topic of discussion; The Leopard 1 MBT, the STB-1 (a prototype of the Type 74 MBT), the T-62A MBT (modified version of T-62 MBT), Kampfpanzer 70 MBT (grandfather of the M1 Abrams MBT and Leopard 2 MBT, and also a prototype that lead to the development of the XM1 MBT and Leopard 2AV MBT), the FV4202 (prototype for the Chieftain MBT), AMX-30B MBT (when it comes to game, as already promised by Wargaming), Obj. 140 (non-production variant/test model for a new Soviet MBT that would be the T-62 MBT), Type 59 MBT (Chinese licensed copy of the T-54/55), and finally the T-54 if you count it as a MBT even though it technically was a medium tank. But as I'm writing this, I realized that those aforementioned are basically all of the tier 10 medium tanks in the game, so bringing them up for discussion saying that they should be better than each other is stupid. Instead, just take it as a brief set of fun facts of first-generation MBTs from various countries lol.

Edited by danieljackspaniel, 01 December 2017 - 05:48 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users