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STA-1 Turret Side Armor

STA-1

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_UrgleMcPurfle_ #1 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:26 AM

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Lost a 1v2 after a long game (time ran out due to an AFK teammate, so the game was a draw) after I bounced an Ru 251 HEAT shell (I use calibrated shells, so it has 275 mm of pen) on the side of a red STA-1's turret. I just checked Armor Inspector and the side of the turret doesn't have spaced armor, just a mere 60 mm of tinfoil. Anybody know what could have happened here?

BlackDogD #2 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:30 AM

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DerpytrollerZ #3 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:37 AM

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Just like how today I absorbed 2 T-34 indy shots and 4 IS-3 shots in my pershing. 2 shots to my back, 1 to my side, and 2 straight to my upper plate. No damage taken whatsoever. #logic

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KingxChuck #4 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:39 AM

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Why would you shoot HEAT at an STA...

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tankeatingtiger #5 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:41 AM

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View PostKingxChuck, on 03 December 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

Why would you shoot HEAT at an STA...

 

to make sure bounces like this won't happen

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Player_5773117413 #6 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:47 AM

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HEAT has been even more so unreliable as of late. It seems like rng rigged it to to have half of the rounds be duds or something. Perhaps you just hit the turret ring though? Ru doesn't have the most accurate gun, and a wider bloom circle on the move may have been within the bounds of the top of the hull even at close ranges.

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wannabeunicum #7 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:51 AM

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View Posttankeatingtiger, on 04 December 2017 - 01:41 AM, said:

 

to make sure bounces like this won't happen

 

heat IS UNREliable af.

It could have hit the mantlet or something. Heat should only be used where AP CAN NOT pen at all. APCR can always be used in kill shot scenarios but heat should only be used if AP will not pen.



__Frostbite #8 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:56 AM

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I'm guessing mantlet...

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__Frostbite #9 Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:01 AM

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even HE should have done the trick. Ru's pen for HE is amazing, its over 100mm of pen

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_UrgleMcPurfle_ #10 Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:30 AM

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I used heat because the STA was a one-shot, but couldn't be killed by HESH splash damage. And I didn't hit any modules or spaced armor (including the mantlet). I saw the shell impact and explode on the flat side of the turret. 

TheFluffiestSeal #11 Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:33 AM

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Lag, maybe?

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TengenToppaPotatoLagann #12 Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:42 AM

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sta has a very rounded turret -> lots of surfaces that end up being tangental edges -> heat doesnt normalize impact angles -> you bounced heat off the side of an sta turret ->>>GG<<<

 

even if hep didn't pen for some reason, the increased chance of module and crew damage might've bought you the time you needed... and two splashes likely would've done the business. 


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MayoNasalSpray #13 Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:44 AM

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HEAT is ridiculously unstable, far more than it should be. I had a game about 2 weeks ago in my Vindicator UM, I have Calibrated shells on it so I have decent HE pen and because HEAT being it's primary ammo type as well as Prammo,  all of it's ammo gets a 10% bonus to Penetration, to prevent my standard HEAT from doing nothing I use prammo, 248mm of Penetration into the rear of the T29, it hits dead center and does nothing.

AOT_Jaeger2 #14 Posted 04 December 2017 - 04:36 AM

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Yeah I lost a game in my Sturer Emil today when I bounced off the lower glacis of a JPanther... just RNG things

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SanguinaryDan #15 Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:49 PM

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I’d bet good money on client - server lag.  You see one thing on screen and the server side sees a different mathematical “image”.  So it looks to you like it hit cleanly in the center of the turret side but the server modeled it hitting slightly earlier or later or higher or lower. It’s why so many fully aimed shots at what seem to be stationary targets just flat miss before the target even starts to move or rotate.
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DrasLeona247 #16 Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:38 PM

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Yeah last night I was playing in my Grille and a m103 rushed up to me--bounced 2 ap shots. Is that even possible?
Some people say the Type 62 is overpowered. Having >500 battles and a 67% winrate, I may agree. However, none of y'all realize just how uncomfortable it is to sit down on these flimsy plastic seats with "Made in China" emblazoned on them. I mean, my cupholder just broke in half. How the f#%$ am I supposed to fire 250mm pen HEAT shells at the fronts of Tier 8 heavies if I have to be holding my Red Bull in one hand at the same time? It's ridiculous.

MayoNasalSpray #17 Posted 04 December 2017 - 03:51 PM

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View PostDrasLeona247, on 04 December 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

Yeah last night I was playing in my Grille and a m103 rushed up to me--bounced 2 ap shots. Is that even possible?

 

Having the lowest AP Penetration of all tier 10 TDs and troll accuracy + M103s troll armor = Yes.



minitel_NA #18 Posted 04 December 2017 - 06:17 PM

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View PostI_Maverick_I, on 04 December 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

even HE should have done the trick. Ru's pen for HE is amazing, its over 100mm of pen

 

trudat.

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minitel_NA #19 Posted 04 December 2017 - 06:21 PM

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View Post_UrgleMcPurfle_, on 04 December 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I used heat because the STA was a one-shot, but couldn't be killed by HESH splash damage. And I didn't hit any modules or spaced armor (including the mantlet). I saw the shell impact and explode on the flat side of the turret. 

 

what you see is different fro. What the server sees, and the server is right and accurate, your device is only showing his best guess. Which in most cases is close enough to play. And sometimes not.

 

also, heat ont only get trapped in spaced armor (tracks, etc...) which u see, to know already, but also doesn’t normalize. So angles or rounded shapes can trick you. 

 

I hate heat.


Edited by minitel_NA, 04 December 2017 - 06:21 PM.

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RommelTanker #20 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:11 AM

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Each shell type in the game has a hidden stat, normalization. Normalization varies between shells.

 

Starting with common shells, AP and HE have the highest normalization values in the game. War Thunder demonstrates this fact perfectly. HE shells in War Thunder have the best normalization in the game, as they can hit an angle of up to 9 degrees (Literally hitting the side of a Centurion Mk. III's turret) without ricocheting. AP comes in second with up to 15 degrees roughly.

 

APCR shells have lower than normal normalization. This is due to the unique shape of most APCR shells, generally similar to arrow heads or spears. This is again shown in War Thunder as APCR shells have what can be considered "Normal" normalization. Anywhere from 15 degrees to about 20 degrees depending on velocity and special sub-type of the "APCR" (In WoT Blitz tier X mediums actually fire APDSFS shells but these are displayed as APCR because of ease of reading APCR over APDSFS). Fin stabilized APCR has the best normalization of APCR where standard APCR has the worst.

 

HEAT shells have the lowest normalization in any game featuring HEAT warheads. For a 3rd time, using War Thunder as a reference, HEAT shells have normalization angles from about 20 degrees to 35 degrees. Obviously there are extreme variations in some cases (HEATFS) but normally HEAT has bad normalization.

 

Now, using this knowledge, you can determine what shell type to fire in what situation. If you shot the front tip side of the STA-1, which is as you said 60mm, but angled to jack it to like 100, 120mm, it will bounce because of HEAT's lack of normalization. No spaced armor needed.


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