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WizoGT379 #221 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:03 AM

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View PostDerpytrollerZ, on 23 January 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

 

​I'm just questioning how the AT15 is so far up. The numbers just don't seem right for how meh the tank is. 

 

Well...who uses it?

I’m sampling the retiree life, of Blitz, not sure if I’ll be returning, but thanks for all of your advice and fun.

 

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RoadKutter #222 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:04 AM

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View Postacrisis, on 23 January 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

 

 

Post 2.8, 3.8, prammo nerf, buff nerf, re-buff, re-re-nerf ... all that happens is more VETERAN $$$ players LEAVE wot blitz. Sure I get WG is reacting to whatever metrics,  but in the age of CARRY OR LOSE, and unobtanium spare parts ... why bother any more?? 

 

WG has refused to listen to feedback, continues to circle the drain and burns through playing players like cell phone companies burning through subscribers

 

 

 

Well said m8! 3 premiums I didn’t buy recently, my collector status got revoked. I’ve spent a few dollars on this game, but lately I find myself not being able to justify any ingame purchases. The whole “you people” comments this morning made my close my wallet for good.


                         

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SpartacusDiablo #223 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:35 AM

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View PostRoadKutter, on 23 January 2018 - 08:04 PM, said:

 

Well said m8! 3 premiums I didn’t buy recently, my collector status got revoked. I’ve spent a few dollars on this game, but lately I find myself not being able to justify any ingame purchases. The whole “you people” comments this morning made my close my wallet for good.

So that didn't sit well with you either...  I get that there is a language gap between us and the mods but I can't help but think that they feel like they are doing us a favor by communicating with is.  They seem to lack a basic understanding of how the relationship between the consumer and a producer works.  This being a digital product does not change this relationship.  The fact that we now have to use non-refundable parts to upgrade our tanks only to have those tanks drastically adjusted a month after we've upgraded them is incredibly detrimental to the player base. It takes away my motivation to want to grind a line. Now when I log in I just play my premiums or my tech tree tanks that I've already unlocked.  What is the point of taking my time and investing it into earning a tank that's going to be changed two months after I get it.  I used to look forward to playing Blitz after a long day of work but now I find myself staring at my laptop trying to decide if I want to boot it up or not. The changes that Wargaming has been making to this game have made me hesitant to spend money on any Wargaming product. World of Warships Blitz is fun, but I am going to think twice before I invest any money into it because  of of my experiences with World of Tanks Blitz. 

 

Wargaming you really should think twice about the decisions that you're forcing on this game against the will of your players because you're not just alienating customers from this product you're alienating customers from all of your products.

 


Edited by SpartacusDiablo, 24 January 2018 - 01:35 AM.


RoadKutter #224 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:46 AM

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I’m not the type of person that doesn’t like Blitz and happily goes over to Pc or Console. I play wowsb as well but I’m not going to spend anything on it. Whatever the platform or tanks, ships or planes it’s still WG and their customer relations suck. Just the time difference makes for a bad communication between WG and it’s customers. They drop by between 2 and 6 am my time reply to a post or two and are gone. We got so far with previous staff, even had a weekly post from the Dog. 

I think it would be easier if the mods just posted in Russian and we relied on Google to translate for us. It probably wouldn’t cause any more issues than we have now.


                         

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Spekulatius #225 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:57 AM

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View PostRoadKutter, on 23 January 2018 - 08:04 PM, said:

 

Well said m8! 3 premiums I didn’t buy recently, my collector status got revoked. I’ve spent a few dollars on this game, but lately I find myself not being able to justify any ingame purchases. The whole “you people” comments this morning made my close my wallet for good.

 

The “you people” very likely is a phrase Mr Ribble picked up without truly understanding the negative underlying tone of it. As someone who speaks English as a second language, I can vouch that it is easy to make a mistake expression yourself and while I probably get quickly corrected because I live in the USA, that is not the case with Ribble who leaves half way across the world.

 

I For one appreciate Ribble sharing information and while I may not agree with every decision, it is good to have a dialogue and a glimpse of the methodoloty and data that WG is looking at to make decisions.

 

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VikkoTheTusken #226 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:11 AM

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View PostRoadKutter, on 23 January 2018 - 09:46 PM, said:

I think it would be easier if the mods just posted in Russian and we relied on Google to translate for us. It probably wouldn’t cause any more issues than we have now.

 

Likewise


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RoadKutter #227 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:27 AM

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View PostSpekulatius, on 23 January 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

 

The “you people” very likely is a phrase Mr Ribble picked up without truly understanding the negative underlying tone of it. As someone who speaks English as a second language, I can vouch that it is easy to make a mistake expression yourself and while I probably get quickly corrected because I live in the USA, that is not the case with Ribble who leaves half way across the world.

 

I For one appreciate Ribble sharing information and while I may not agree with every decision, it is good to have a dialogue and a glimpse of the methodoloty and data that WG is looking at to make decisions.

 

Piece!

 

English is my 4th language , I live in a multicultural country where for a lot of people English is a second language.  The fact that he used it to scorn us and to threat us, makes me believe in full comprehension of the sentence. Europeans are well educated and I would assume that a well to do company like WG would hire someone with competitive language skills as their representative for their customers.

 

You don't use the Alec Baldwin pep talk from Glenn Gary Glenn Ross every day in real life because it was cool in the movie? Or do you? 

 

 

Put that coffee down......


Edited by RoadKutter, 24 January 2018 - 02:32 AM.

                         

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4sfield #228 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:34 AM

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View PostSpekulatius, on 23 January 2018 - 08:57 PM, said:

 

The “you people” very likely is a phrase Mr Ribble picked up without truly understanding the negative underlying tone of it. As someone who speaks English as a second language, I can vouch that it is easy to make a mistake expression yourself and while I probably get quickly corrected because I live in the USA, that is not the case with Ribble who leaves half way across the world.

 

I For one appreciate Ribble sharing information and while I may not agree with every decision, it is good to have a dialogue and a glimpse of the methodoloty and data that WG is looking at to make decisions.

 

Piece!

 

  I appreciate the sharing, I just question the methodolog because everything that I do at work is based on data.

 

  Sharing data and interpreting it are 2 different things. Data doesn’t lie but it can be skewed by not capturing what is going on correctly misread by those who are trying to decipher it. This is what I question. I read, decipher and collect data every day at work. You can make all the spread sheets you want to, if you don’t take into account all of the determining factors it means nothing.

 

  I can show whatever I want with the data I have, it all depends on what I choose to collect. Profitability decreases with the loss of customers, too many man hours and scrap. Operating Efficiency decreases with machine downtime and Productivity decrease due to laziness or some of the same factors and some that you have no control over. Data is no good if EVERYTHING isn’t taken into consideration. That’s why it’s idiotic to base everything on 55-65% players. We don’t set targets where I work by the best figures we can make, we set them by 75-80% of of the best we can do. 

 

  To do it correctly, things should be based on the 44-52% players. That’s 80% of the winning percentage of what they’re using now, puts 48% as the average and it captures the biggest part of the playerbase while omitting the elite and the bottom of the barrel. They should then buff and nerf based on averaging how far above or below 48% those guys play tanks. 

 

  They won’t do it that way though because they know all those guys suck. It’s pretty bad when they seem to care even less for those guys than we do.


Edited by 4sfield, 24 January 2018 - 02:36 AM.

 

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Player19696657 #229 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:14 AM

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When are people going to get it through their heads that WG doesn’t care at all for the long term players?   All you are seeing in the blunt and terse replies is the true nature of the people in charge.  Every now and again they mess up and let the cat out of the bag (Sir Foch incident...anyone remember?) yet for some strange reason people persist in thinking they can change things.   You can’t. It’s either play the game as it’s handed to you from on high or walk away.    

RibbleStripe #230 Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:26 AM

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View PostBlartch, on 23 January 2018 - 07:39 PM, said:

First, some general observations and small questions:

TIER 10

- Grille was recently nerfed, and is now 2nd worst in both WR and damage (why was it nerfed?)

- IS-4, based on these very charts you show us, charts that conversely show it as #2 in both WR and damage... is getting a buff?  How does that make any sense?

- Similarly... based only on the charts, how does the Foch 155 deserve a buff? (I agree it needs something, but that's beside the point... I'm just curious how you all approach it, the consistency seems lacking)

- There is clearly better general performance amongst heavy tanks and heavily-armored TDs.  In any of these tiers, does your development team consider the performance of tank types vs. other tank types?  For example, in tier 8, the light tanks clearly underperform vs. other classes.  Lightly armored TDs also generally underperform (probably because they need both optics AND camo, and not for every other tank to be running optics)

- How does your development team consider the likely motivation of players for running certain tanks?  ie, the best players gravitate towards new lines first (because they're played everything else) and inflate their averages, the worst players tend towards "easy" Russian tanks and derp and thus deflate their averages... etc.

- Generally, the charts make tier 10 LOOK reasonably well-balanced, and some minor lifting of a handful of under-performers should do it

 

TIER 9

- also looks reasonably balanced, with some minor tweaks to a few under-performers.  I'm not sure how the T95 and Tortoise are doing so well.  The KPz.70 is another case of the best players inflating a tank's averages, because it certainly doesn't feel that good.

- I'm conversely surprised the Foch shows so poorly

- As with the Grille, the lackluster performance of the Cent 7/1 after its nerf shows a little over-reaction.  Glad to see it getting its proper HESH back.  Thanks!

 

TIER 8

- PROBLEMS.  BIG PROBLEMS.  This is the tier where the balance really starts breaking down, because of un-nerfable premiums.  I'd suspect tier 7 shows similar chart characteristics.

- Tier 8 is clearly a heavy tank's tier... more specifically, a heavy-armored premium tank's tier.  All the unarmored lights, mediums, TDs, and light-armored heavies lag badly behind the others.

- similarly, results of questionable adjustments are seen here... Borsig, AMX-50-100, 13-90, T49 all had recent nerfs, and are all down at the bottom of performance.  Ferdinand (yes, I think it was overdone, but don't know where it sat previously) and IS-3 (model - specifically turret - re-design made it a tougher kill) are well above average.

- Almost everything lags below a half-dozen premium vehicles that you can't nerf.  Clearly, you have to bring up the roughly 1-2 DOZEN vehicles that can't fairly compete with these premiums... which makes their performance vs. tier 7 a total mess.  That whole imbalance cascades down through the tiers.

 

The problems at tier 8 and below are much, MUCH deeper than piecemeal attacking this one vehicle at a time and tweaking it up and down.  There's a clear edge in driving heavy, reasonably-mobile tanks with big alpha.  The efficiency of weakly-armored tanks is comparably laughable (again, based on THESE CHARTS).  Many mediums at these and other tiers now don't only have problems frontally penetrating heavy tanks (which makes sense), but also problems OUTMANEUVERING or OUT-SPOTTING heavy tanks (which doesn't).  The maps are cramped and everybody sees everybody now, because engagement distances are squished and everyone is running the same good optics.

 

Honestly, I think your first target to balance has less to do with the guns and armor, and more with the camo and optics.  Let light and mediums have a reconnaissance job again, make IS-# and other heavy tanks rightfully mostly blind, and I think you'll see a semblance of balance return.  Until then, you're probably wasting everybody's time with the up-down-up-down adjustments.

 

Hey Blartch. Appreciate detailed feedback.

 

1) Grille is under review - some versions are being discussed.

2) IS-4 isn't getting a buff. We simply fix its model inaccuracy.

3) Foch is fine in NA. Not in EU and RU. We agree it needs something and decided it should be more defended.

4) Sure, we consider how different classes fight each other. But we also consider classes' features. For example generally HTs have higher WR and lower damage, classical TDs perform conversely. MTs are somewhere in the middle. There is no objective to make the stats absolutely equal for every class.

5) This is why we analyze stats separately for different group of players based on their skill level. There are no inflation or deflation affects.

6) If you are not sure, there is nothing i can do about it. This time we posted stats for your server - and still some forumers doubt those numbers. Well, i'm here not to convince you but to explain current state and future decisions. 

7) Tier 8 needs a lot of work to do, it's true. We want to refine it step by step starting with Indien, Ferdinand and 112.



RibbleStripe #231 Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:36 AM

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View PostRommelTanker, on 23 January 2018 - 07:51 PM, said:

 

Ribble, the problem is your looking at a portion of the player base that doesn't represent a 5th of the players that play the vehicle. Of course those players are going to do fantastic then because the skill level of the rest of the 80-85% of the player base are going to be scratching their head how to play a machine. Your numbers are skewed in a way they shouldn't be. Add two more percentile ranges that you check (35%-45% and 45%-55%) and you'll likely see the Ferdinand and a few other vehicles performing on par with most of the other machines on the list.

 

I explained why we consider this group relevant several times. If you disagree with it - fine. But i'm not saiyng the same things over and over again. No more comment about 'portions' from now on. 



RibbleStripe #232 Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:57 AM

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View PostBrickSniper33A, on 23 January 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

Hey ribble, I'm sure everyone at WG is aware of the fact that Apple has updated their policy concerning "Lootboxes." But would you be so kind as to indulge me and give me an assurance that WG will adhere to the policy change and as of 4.6 give us the percentiles on the chances of winning each potential prize in all your lootboxes? because, no offence intended, I have lost a bit of respect for wargaming as a whole. I realize you're a business and that you have a prime directive, but in my opinion (far be it for me with my lack of any business knowledge to criticize what I don't know about) there are more Player/company joint beneficial methods of practice than the ones WG is currently using.    

 

We are aware. If we have lootboxes regulated by this policy we will definitely follow it. 

RibbleStripe #233 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:17 AM

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View PostLuc____, on 24 January 2018 - 12:28 AM, said:

 

Hey Ribble, 

I was wondering if the rangefinder on the AMX AC 48 would also be removed. 

Also, concerning the batchats, I was wondering if there would be any nerfs to the tanks to make up for the shell reload buff. Magazine reload? Penetration?

Thanks,

Luc

 

It's not removed. Its armor is improved. But we don't plan it for AMX AC 48.

And no nerfes for BC25t.



Spekulatius #234 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:34 PM

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View Post4sfield, on 23 January 2018 - 09:34 PM, said:

 

  I appreciate the sharing, I just question the methodolog because everything that I do at work is based on data.

 

  Sharing data and interpreting it are 2 different things. Data doesn’t lie but it can be skewed by not capturing what is going on correctly misread by those who are trying to decipher it. This is what I question. I read, decipher and collect data every day at work. You can make all the spread sheets you want to, if you don’t take into account all of the determining factors it means nothing.

 

  I can show whatever I want with the data I have, it all depends on what I choose to collect. Profitability decreases with the loss of customers, too many man hours and scrap. Operating Efficiency decreases with machine downtime and Productivity decrease due to laziness or some of the same factors and some that you have no control over. Data is no good if EVERYTHING isn’t taken into consideration. That’s why it’s idiotic to base everything on 55-65% players. We don’t set targets where I work by the best figures we can make, we set them by 75-80% of of the best we can do. 

 

  To do it correctly, things should be based on the 44-52% players. That’s 80% of the winning percentage of what they’re using now, puts 48% as the average and it captures the biggest part of the playerbase while omitting the elite and the bottom of the barrel. They should then buff and nerf based on averaging how far above or below 48% those guys play tanks. 

 

  They won’t do it that way though because they know all those guys suck. It’s pretty bad when they seem to care even less for those guys than we do.

 

Thanks. My job is based on data too and yes, there is always the question of what data to collect and how to interpret it. I think understand the logic of using 55-65% WR player data for balancing (competent drivers), which happens to be ~90-99% of players in terms of WR, but then you are omitting 91% of the data (or player base) from the decision making process. Typically that is not a good idea, I agree.

 

But then how to do it -how good would you need to make a Walker Bulldog (Tier 7) or RU251 glass cannon, before the 48% WR player does as well in it than in a Tier 8 Russian heavy?  And assuming, you balance these tank for the majority of ~ 50%WR players, what would the 65%Wr player do with such a buffed tank? WG don’t don’t want to have death squadrons of these players running around and basically destroying the game. I think it is a real risk, if you balance a tank with more obsure attributes (for the 48%WR player) like camo, quick aim time, that the very skilled players will be able to abuse these attributes and basically destroy the gameplay by winning everything. That wouldn’t be good for the game.


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Spekulatius #235 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:44 PM

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View PostRoadKutter, on 23 January 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

 

English is my 4th language , I live in a multicultural country where for a lot of people English is a second language.  The fact that he used it to scorn us and to threat us, makes me believe in full comprehension of the sentence. Europeans are well educated and I would assume that a well to do company like WG would hire someone with competitive language skills as their representative for their customers.

 

You don't use the Alec Baldwin pep talk from Glenn Gary Glenn Ross every day in real life because it was cool in the movie? Or do you? 

 

 

Put that coffee down......

 

I agree that RibbleStripe should probably be more careful expressing himself, but I think a lot of what we perceive as rude or insult is probably unintended. It is fairly obvious that RibbleStripe  has problems expressing himself clearly.

 

I for one prefer the current form of communication  which is lacking over none at all. I agree that WG customer service is lacking,  they have a my way of the highway method of dealing with us, but to be honest,  a lot of US companies are not a whole lot better, they just communicate much more politely and eloquently.

 

 


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SpartacusDiablo #236 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:01 PM

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View PostSpekulatius, on 24 January 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

 

I agree that RibbleStripe should probably be more careful expressing himself, but I think a lot of what we perceive as rude or insult is probably unintended. It is fairly obvious that RibbleStripe  has problems expressing himself clearly.

 

I for one prefer the current form of communication  which is lacking over none at all. I agree that WG customer service is lacking,  they have a my way of the highway method of dealing with us, but to be honest,  a lot of US companies are not a whole lot better, they just communicate much more politely and eloquently.

 

 

While I agree that the communication between the NA server and Blitz HQ lacks refinement and could definitely use some improvement (this could be fixed with an active NA based staff) it is my opinion that there is a deeper problem. Wargaming seems to look at their customers as if we owe them something because they have made this game.  We are the customer, without us there is no Wargaming. To have our feedback ignored and blown off by the powers that be at Blitz HQ because they know better than us screams of niave arrogance.  Should every bit of customer input be acted upon? Of course not, but when you see the community as a whole come together and say that the 3.8 changes suck or that the 4.5 balance adjustments were overkill the company should have taken a step back and reconsidered their decisions. Blitz refuses to do that. They basically tell the customer to go pound sand and deal with it. That is not how a company builds a long term relationship with it's customers. 


Edited by SpartacusDiablo, 24 January 2018 - 02:08 PM.


Sturmgeschutz1 #237 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:36 PM

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Great wreck another American tank because another bit of commie bias ( the Chinese line) is coming in. Suggestions for Italian lines and Japanese Heavies have been asked for seriously a long time going now...but nooooo. Let’s add another soviet embellished system for players to have to look at! Several improved variants of the German Leopard class under several national flags and improved TD’s not incorporated. Saying modern tanks will affect balancing but fakehammer came on board here. One biased excuse after another. Nerf up and completely wreck the M-41 Walker Bulldog but make a so called German variant and the sell it as Cruel Twist... yeah named right since the bulldog was ruined and the cruel twist became a wallet warrior tank. Matching sucks and so do experiences of a player base killing team win rates. Glitches go unrepaired because barrels still jump skyward, sights are being pulled away from sighted targets by tanks passing in between a sight picture and a tank moving in front of it, tanks appear out of the blue when fps and ping are perfect, ghost shells, basketball rounds, penetration of kill spots ineffective, optics not covering distances as advertised, speed of tanks incorrect in game, invitations to rooms cut off but still receive invites, forced log offs still occurring (and again when fps and ping are perfect), credit gauging for using higher tier 8-10 tanks / TD’s even with high damages and kills, Rounds not doing or damaging as advertised, distance shots do flyovers or fly bys instead of hitting targets, (Non) Military- (Dis) Honor System isn’t controlled by support or appeals, Winter fair auctions for tickets to tanks suggested sale price at hundreds of dollars for the M-60, chest clans are still given preferential treatments and progressions, tournaments are too late for Eastern time zone players that have work or school ( and there’s a ton of glitches in that system too which is why I won’t do em), and it goes on and on and on. WOTB READ YOUR REVIEWS. World is watching. On a last note... I don’t invest the interest I once had in this game anymore. It’s become impossible to improve with these non teams and the hate spite fake dishonor excuse system put into play. I don’t want to hear from WOTB Preferred pets on here. Purrr somewhere else. This is reality as it is. It’s proven and Non- Argumentive concluding that it is not in a state of Conjecture! 

tpcshadow #238 Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:15 PM

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View PostDerpytrollerZ, on 23 January 2018 - 05:56 AM, said:

 

​I'm just questioning how the AT15 is so far up. The numbers just don't seem right for how meh the tank is. 

 

I counter that it’s not that meh. It can be a buzzsaw against the under 50% crowd. They just try to sit and trade damage with it, sometimes even in a medium. A good AT15 driver can hide the cupola or wiggle to make more shots miss/bounce while using the DPM and accuracy to make Swiss cheese of enemies.  It has the best DPM (by far) and dispersion of an TD at tier 8. The armo is troll for the average player who doesn’t know how to counter one.

reluctanttheist #239 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:48 PM

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View PostSpartacusDiablo, on 24 January 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

Wargaming seems to look at their customers as if we owe them something because they have made this game.  We are the customer, without us there is no Wargaming. To have our feedback ignored and blown off by the powers that be at Blitz HQ because they know better than us screams of niave arrogance.  

 

Problem is, 90% of the playerbase isn't even having those sorts of thoughts.  They're just downloading the app from the store and playing it, with nary a thought of customer service.  The massive hordes of potential players on mobile means the Thinking Crowd is a small minority.  They don't really need us - the forumers.

 

I am satisfied (not overjoyed of course) with Ribble's responses and WG's attempts to communicate to us with what they're doing.  They work with the data they have: though I would contend that their interpretation of that data and the decisions they make based on it could benefit from input from the forum users to prevent missteps - like the overbuff of the Tiger 1 and Tiger P, and the nerfing of the Ferdinand, which still doesn't make sense to me since they're still easy prey now.


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reluctanttheist #240 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:50 PM

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View PostSturmgeschutz1, on 24 January 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

Great wreck another American tank because another bit of commie bias ( the Chinese line) is coming in. ...

 

Cool.  Go play another game then.


Tanks:  _X: T110E5, T110E3, FV215b(183), IS-7, Obj.140  _IX: M103, T-54  _VIII: IS-6, T34, Lowe, T-44, IS-6, IS-3D  _VII: T-43, Comet, E25, AT-15A, SU-122-44
Usually on in the evenings Pacific time.  Intake Contact for Triarii Clan (PM for details)
Be a better player  |  Click here if you have lag  |  Graphics Settings for iOS  |  Check your ping with Pingplotter  |  Get good: watch Bushka!  |  Check out tanks on Tank Compare  and  BlitzHangar





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