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SpartacusDiablo #961 Posted 30 January 2019 - 09:40 PM

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Ribble the tier VIII Chieftain really could use some help with the cupola.  I'm not asking for its removal but a armor buff of some sort is needed.  It is a struggle to hull down effectively with that soft VW Beetle sized cupola on top.  If you could buff the armor and / or reduce the size of it you would make the tank substantially more enjoyable to play.  

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RibbleStripe #962 Posted 31 January 2019 - 07:25 AM

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View Post4sfield, on 30 January 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

Most of the tanks that are popular are overpowered. If they’re not overpowered then they do not take a lot of skill to drive or they have a huge gun with high alpha damage. More players play these types of tanks because they do not understand how to play with the team.  Due to the large number of these types of vehicles in battles gameplay has become boring and less fun. With so many overpowered vehicles being used players are must play tanks that are competitive if they want to win. No player wants to play an underpowered tank that isn’t the match of the overpowered tanks that are driven by most players.

 

 

Really? 


Top 3 popular tier 10 TD - FV, Grille, 268.

Top 3 popular tier 10 HT - IS-7, E 100, T57.

Top 3 popular tier 10 MT - 62, 140, Leo.


You played 5 of these 9 vehicles. Can you divide your tier 10 tanks into 3 groups - OP vehicles, huge gun vehicles, and not skill-demanding?

 

View PostDark_Magician_Girl, on 30 January 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

When are we going to see changes to the SP 1 C?

 

Actually Sp 1 C is okay among tier 7 LT. 

 

View PostSpartacusDiablo, on 31 January 2019 - 12:40 AM, said:

Ribble the tier VIII Chieftain really could use some help with the cupola. I'm not asking for its removal but a armor buff of some sort is needed. It is a struggle to hull down effectively with that soft VW Beetle sized cupola on top. If you could buff the armor and / or reduce the size of it you would make the tank substantially more enjoyable to play.

 

I'll talk to balance team about cupola. But since Chieftain is somewhere between Teger II and Caernarvon i don't think chances are high.

 


 

 


Player_39363936 #963 Posted 31 January 2019 - 01:10 PM

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Every tier six game I get into has four kv2’s and four su100.

 

So by stupidly getting rid of the low tier derp guns, you have now packed tier six with games that now consst of nothing but all TD games.

 

If derp guns are bad for the players why is this situation being allowed to persist?

 



4sfield #964 Posted 31 January 2019 - 05:20 PM

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View PostRibbleStripe, on 31 January 2019 - 02:25 AM, said:

 

Can you divide your tier 10 tanks into 3 groups - OP vehicles, huge gun vehicles, and not skill-demanding?

 

 

    No, because there is no Tier XI and Tier IX is the most balanced tier. I should have clarified, tier VI to VIII is where the issue is. The only issue with the high tiers is the TD and HT spam because the average players can’t make a medium work. Actually that’s the issue with all TD spam.

 

  What are the 5 most popular vehicles in each tier in order and not sorted by type?


Edited by 4sfield, 31 January 2019 - 06:11 PM.

 

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tanker070 #965 Posted 31 January 2019 - 08:55 PM

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Almost all players love the diversity shown in tank types shown around tier6-8

Unfortunately this tier spread suffers most with abnormally strong tanks which overshadow tech tree options with ease.

 

Tier9-10 is best it has ever been.

 

Tier6-8 is where players develop themselves and begin to invest heavily into blitz. 

It's important to show care with balance and not overlook that fact premiums tanks > tech tree tanks. 

Can provide specific examples if data isn't in reach.


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RibbleStripe #966 Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:18 AM

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View Post4sfield, on 31 January 2019 - 08:20 PM, said:

 

    No, because there is no Tier XI and Tier IX is the most balanced tier. I should have clarified, tier VI to VIII is where the issue is. The only issue with the high tiers is the TD and HT spam because the average players can’t make a medium work. Actually that’s the issue with all TD spam.

 

  What are the 5 most popular vehicles in each tier in order and not sorted by type?

 

I can't understand why that rule (Most of the tanks that are popular are overpowered) doesn't work for tier 10... 

 

Top tier 9 popular tanks - T-54, IS-8, E 75, T30, VK 4502 B. You played 3 of these 5 tanks. Which one is OP? Which one doesn't demand skill? )


 

 


4sfield #967 Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:16 AM

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View PostRibbleStripe, on 01 February 2019 - 03:18 AM, said:

 

I can't understand why that rule (Most of the tanks that are popular are overpowered) doesn't work for tier 10... 

 

Top tier 9 popular tanks - T-54, IS-8, E 75, T30, VK 4502 B. You played 3 of these 5 tanks. Which one is OP? Which one doesn't demand skill? )

  

  Why only 1 medium on that list? It seems to me if they were all useable, they would be more popular. I would have thought that the WT would have been in the top 5 because I see one on both teams nearly every time I see tier IXs.

 

  All of the tanks you mention have useable armor that will deflect shots and guns that pen the tanks that have useable armor. When I look at those tanks by the way they are being played by the majority of players I see the following. Even after the nerf the T-54 is probably still the best all around tank in the game and one of my the best high tier mediums, there isn’t a single tier VIII medium that can stand up to it. (Easy to bully low tiered tanks) The IS-8 is in the line towards the most forgiving Tier X tank in the IS-7. (Throw tank grind for guys to get to their 1st tier X) The E75 is arguably the best Tier IX heavy, it’s at least the best side scraper (Forgivingly survivabie and pens just about everything it shoots at) And the VK 4502 leads to the new German tier X tank (guys are playing it to get the newest tier X) The T30 deals huge alpha that’s what the new guys like and it has a strong turret, hull down it’s hard to deal with (Low skill for decent damage all you have to do is live long enough to shoot 4 times) Those are all good tanks and none of them are worthless when they see they see Tier X’s, in the hands of a skilled driver they are all formidable. I can’t think of a tier IX tank that I play that can’t carry a tier X game with. 

 

  I can’t say the same thing for tier VI-VIII tanks when they are in a match as a bottom tier except for tier. I said Tier IX is the most balanced tier and tier X doesn’t see any games as a bottom tier so you can’t say any of them are OP. Like Tanker070 and I have both said the issue is at tier VI-VIII. Where is the data for those tiers? 


 

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FussyRude #968 Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:52 PM

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I want a Conqueror buff
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RibbleStripe #969 Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:56 AM

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View PostFussyRude, on 01 February 2019 - 11:52 PM, said:

I want a Conqueror buff

 

It's completely fine and doesn't need any buffs.

 

View Post4sfield, on 01 February 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

 All of the tanks you mention have useable armor that will deflect shots and guns that pen the tanks that have useable armor. When I look at those tanks by the way they are being played by the majority of players I see the following. Even after the nerf the T-54 is probably still the best all around tank in the game and one of my the best high tier mediums, there isn’t a single tier VIII medium that can stand up to it. (Easy to bully low tiered tanks) The IS-8 is in the line towards the most forgiving Tier X tank in the IS-7. (Throw tank grind for guys to get to their 1st tier X) The E75 is arguably the best Tier IX heavy, it’s at least the best side scraper (Forgivingly survivabie and pens just about everything it shoots at) And the VK 4502 leads to the new German tier X tank (guys are playing it to get the newest tier X) The T30 deals huge alpha that’s what the new guys like and it has a strong turret, hull down it’s hard to deal with (Low skill for decent damage all you have to do is live long enough to shoot 4 times) Those are all good tanks and none of them are worthless when they see they see Tier X’s, in the hands of a skilled driver they are all formidable. I can’t think of a tier IX tank that I play that can’t carry a tier X game with. 

 

So many words but i still don't see the answers for my questions... 

Block Quote

 Top tier 9 popular tanks - T-54, IS-8, E 75, T30, VK 4502 B. You played 3 of these 5 tanks. Which one is OP? Which one doesn't demand skill? )

 

 


 

 


tanker070 #970 Posted 04 February 2019 - 04:30 PM

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View PostRibbleStripe, on 04 February 2019 - 01:56 AM, said:

So many words but i still don't see the answers for my questions... 

 

apologies Ribble, I think we talking about different tiers.

 

if I had to answer your question directly: e75 and t54 are the tanks that require lesser “skill” to run and provide better results than compare to let’s say Conq. And type61

 

Tanks profile as a lot to do with this me thinks. Conq. Could probably shouldn’t use Canarvan chassis a tier higher.  Type61 shouldn’t have cupola on top of already weak profile.  E75 has fitting armor for its profile while Conq. Has same wide profile but no armor. Sure guns are vastly different but survivability matters a lot when your given a heavy role to play.

 

hope this helps u see how I’m thinking


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Oicraftian #971 Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:53 PM

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View PostSpartacusDiablo, on 30 January 2019 - 09:40 PM, said:

Ribble the tier VIII Chieftain really could use some help with the cupola. I'm not asking for its removal but a armor buff of some sort is needed. It is a struggle to hull down effectively with that soft VW Beetle sized cupola on top. If you could buff the armor and / or reduce the size of it you would make the tank substantially more enjoyable to play.

The Chieftain is stupidly easy to play, and performs just fine. It is balanced and readily able to stop the better part of an enemy team all by itself. If you can't play Chieftain well I can confirm you are trash.

 

It's not Lowe level broken but that is a good, not a bad, thing.

View Posttanker070, on 04 February 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

 

apologies Ribble, I think we talking about different tiers.

 

if I had to answer your question directly: e75 and t54 are the tanks that require lesser “skill” to run and provide better results than compare to let’s say Conq. And type61

 

Tanks profile as a lot to do with this me thinks. Conq. Could probably shouldn’t use Canarvan chassis a tier higher.  Type61 shouldn’t have cupola on top of already weak profile.  E75 has fitting armor for its profile while Conq. Has same wide profile but no armor. Sure guns are vastly different but survivability matters a lot when your given a heavy role to play.

 

hope this helps u see how I’m thinking

 

if you actually believe this [edited]you are stupid.

 

T-54 isn't good anymore. It has always required significant amounts of skill to do well. Now, it just has a mediocre ceiling compared to the PT A with it's 105 L7. The root cause is the D-10T being made out as a low power gun in where those guns are rarely meta, on a tank thats only source of flexibility is a little bit of armor and its mediocre speed.

 

Best tier 9 medium? More like PT A. I would argue 25T AP is superior but I am biased, and even then I hemmoraged stats with summer teams.

 

Conqueror performs just fine, it's a guntank heavy, why should you complain?

 

If it simply requires you to play differently, how does it cost more skill? Think. Tiger I is easy mode tier 7.

 

Type 61 is flat out trash because it is a gun tank with a mediocre gun. It either lacks power or accuracy on a platform that can't afford to be inaccurate or lower power.

 

E-75 has been lowkey OP ever since it was added and I don't see it getting nerfed anytime soon.

 

You want to just add armor?

Do you realize one of the easiest tier 10 mediums to play is the Leopard 1?

 

Have it kitted, play attentively, and not during the summer. It will be much stronger than any other tier 10 medium I think.


Edited by Oicraftian, 05 February 2019 - 06:14 PM.

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boy2nice #972 Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:36 PM

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Hello I would like to add that the t-34-3 needs to be up there. As a developer I know u guys have to work out kinks but really idgaf. Y’all buffed tf out of the amx which is actually insane considering it’s a premium tank. So I don’t see why y’all can’t buff the t343, it’s reload is to long 15 seconds for a teir 8 med, not to mention that I have some stuff to decrease the reload, an it’s slow af compared to its other counterparts, honestly I don’t even know why y’all have it listed as a teir 8 it feels like a teir 7 with the stats it has been given. This tank is more of a finesse tank. It’s better at the back then it is at the front line simply because of its fûcking reload time not to mention about the only time u can press is end game or if ur wit someone u know has ur back early game/mid game. Now it’s good at farming dmg like a td, I don’t have a problem using ur hit points but when my team is shît or whatever the reason u cant do much with this tank. It’s barely able to even have brawls if that other meds would destroy it no cap. U can get bounces off it from just about any tank an that brings me to my next point, it’s an ok face hugger but it can’t even cod ppl like wat now considering there are meds that probably can’t that’s understandable but it’s a premium tank for Christ sake. If I wanted a premium td I would have spent my money accordingly but I didn’t. So unless I missed something someone hit me wit the facts cause I’m quite exhausted, like it’s not a bad tank but the t-34-2 line seems better,I would even go out on a limb to say that the t-34-1 could out play the t-34-3 but I could be wrong. 



MudkipAtWar #973 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:59 PM

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View Postboy2nice, on 07 February 2019 - 09:36 AM, said:

Hello I would like to add that the t-34-3 needs to be up there. As a developer I know u guys have to work out kinks but really idgaf. Y’all buffed tf out of the amx which is actually insane considering it’s a premium tank. So I don’t see why y’all can’t buff the t343, it’s reload is to long 15 seconds for a teir 8 med, not to mention that I have some stuff to decrease the reload, an it’s slow af compared to its other counterparts, honestly I don’t even know why y’all have it listed as a teir 8 it feels like a teir 7 with the stats it has been given. This tank is more of a finesse tank. It’s better at the back then it is at the front line simply because of its fûcking reload time not to mention about the only time u can press is end game or if ur wit someone u know has ur back early game/mid game. Now it’s good at farming dmg like a td, I don’t have a problem using ur hit points but when my team is shît or whatever the reason u cant do much with this tank. It’s barely able to even have brawls if that other meds would destroy it no cap. U can get bounces off it from just about any tank an that brings me to my next point, it’s an ok face hugger but it can’t even cod ppl like wat now considering there are meds that probably can’t that’s understandable but it’s a premium tank for Christ sake. If I wanted a premium td I would have spent my money accordingly but I didn’t. So unless I missed something someone hit me wit the facts cause I’m quite exhausted, like it’s not a bad tank but the t-34-2 line seems better,I would even go out on a limb to say that the t-34-1 could out play the t-34-3 but I could be wrong. 

 

Its a medium with big alpha and a great turret, it exists to trade shots, not brawl.

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Oicraftian #974 Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:06 PM

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View PostMudkipAtWar, on 08 February 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

 

Its a medium with big alpha and a great turret, it exists to trade shots, not brawl.

1.8k DPM 175 pen combo at tier 8.

 

@boys2nice

I haven't played it but almost anything medium/light in tier 8 is trash.


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SoulsOfPurgatory #975 Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:40 PM

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Although It could really use some buffs, I've been playing a lot with it and managed to find effective spots to hide the cupola.
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MudkipAtWar #976 Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:43 PM

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View PostSoulsOfPurgatory, on 11 February 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

Although It could really use some buffs, I've been playing a lot with it and managed to find effective spots to hide the cupola.

 

what tank

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SoulsOfPurgatory #977 Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:45 PM

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View PostMudkipAtWar, on 11 February 2019 - 02:43 PM, said:

 

what tank

Chieftain/T95


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Oicraftian #978 Posted 13 February 2019 - 05:08 AM

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View PostSoulsOfPurgatory, on 11 February 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:

Chieftain/T95

 

Chieftain/T95 is a healthy premium in a world where almost every premium since T-54 mod1 is unhealthy for the game. It is not even that healthy an addition to the game, but it does not 'need' a buff. I would argue it is a good tank. It needs a buff much less than a tank like T-44, which has needed a buff since 2014 and has faced increasing amounts of powercreep.

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4sfield #979 Posted 13 February 2019 - 08:10 AM

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View PostOicraftian, on 13 February 2019 - 12:08 AM, said:

 

Chieftain/T95 is a healthy premium in a world where almost every premium since T-54 mod1 is unhealthy for the game. It is not even that healthy an addition to the game, but it does not 'need' a buff. I would argue it is a good tank. It needs a buff much less than a tank like T-44, which has needed a buff since 2014 and has faced increasing amounts of powercreep.

 

  I think tier VIII mediums need a buff all the way around as long as they’re not named mod or indien. 

 

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Oicraftian #980 Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:20 AM

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View Post4sfield, on 13 February 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

 

  I think tier VIII mediums need a buff all the way around as long as they’re not named mod or indien. 

 

Let me think...

Spoiler

This is a buffed tier 8 medium. Notice how a medium is partly outclassed by the tier 7 heavy tank in a field it is supposed to specialize in.

 

Now, you can argue that the indien is 'good enough' tier for tier, it is clearly an incremental growth over Tiger 1 at tier 7, not a broken leapfrog.

 

Except for 1 flaw.

Ok. So players don't know how to play mediums because they were playing Indien like the tier 7.

 

Indien problem? It is good tier 7 firepower in a tier where heavy tanks have DPM approaching with nearly twice the alpha at times, while having awful gun handling and mediocre mobility. Indien doesn't need a big buff though, only something to make it, say, have ~100 pts more DPM when kitted for example, with 0.14 bloom or something similar to make it snapshot. Or perhaps that is too much in light of nerfing almost every tier 8 mediums pen.

 

At the moment it is probably worth less than an IS-6 with DPM gun. Which, funnily enough, also needs a buff.

 

 

How to cure the spam of IS-5 & IS-6?

Make them have gun handling/DPM guns, what other ideas?

 

IS-5 can have 'surprisingly good' gun handling with say, inferior pen to before, while IS-6 can have slightly better pen and... I don't know just become less despicable.

 

SU-101?

Give it the gun handling to flex, and the DPM to actually function as a tank destroyer. 

 

Tier 8 mediums in general?

I think this situation is not a very complex one. The NATO tier 8 mediums in real life are really just using guns similar to 90mm M3, which really isn't that powerful, save for tanks like Indien. I presume on 'hotter' ammunition loads, but still, not a comparison to D-10T.

I'd say nerf the pen, up the alpha and DPM.

STA-1 penetration down to say, 187 mills?, increase max speed?, improve softs, and the DPM to 'something competitive'. 2550 or such should work, it can't just arbitrarily run over Indien DPM. It leads over all but the Caer. Which, for a 'soft' medium like STA-1, is reasonable I think. Caer has the armor, the pen to kill anything and flex on spot, STA-1 has the flex, speed, and alpha.

Pershing stays as is, DPM increased outright

Centurion I, renamed Cent 3, UFP increased to, IDK, Cent 7/1 levels? DPM & alpha increased, main change is gun handling to 0.1/0.1 or something. Pen cut down to ~200.

Spoiler

 

 

I am concerned with upping the DPM so much without looking at the others, but generally this idea should work.

Remember, most tier 8 heavies already sit at ~2-2.2k DPM

 

100mm D-10T? I thought of a radical idea to just rework the alpha/pen of 100mm D-10T, LB-1, L7, and D-54, but I do not think WG will make such a change.

 

Whatever the solution is for T-44, I think it can rest knowing that this will never come to pass, and that it will never be a relevant in this way.

Spoiler

 

 

It's not complicated or difficult to see problems with tier 8 mediums. Namely that their best DPM can't beat a heavy tank, their DPM is almost the same as in tier heavies with almost no advantage, and their alpha is just too low. But they pen almost everything because... Reasons. I think it is better to move them this way. Few can contest a heavy in pen, but even then they will lose out, but most focus on DPM and such features.

 

Anyway, imagine a T-44 rolling in with 340 alpha and ~210mm AP pen, and sure it'll come with 4 degrees of gun depression, but you will be 'snapping' with 340 alpha.

 

The alpha compression... I am concerned, but also notice how this is Blitz. 7 vs 7, alpha compression appears to make sense.

 

This is tentative, a fantasy to float out.


Edited by Oicraftian, 13 February 2019 - 12:17 PM.

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