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Balancing German heavy tank armor

Balance balancing heavy e100 maus tiger vk jagtiger German

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Woofywolf #1 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:39 PM

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**Tiger II**
Front hull: 200 
Side hull: 100
Rear hull: 100
———— 
Front turret: 240
Side turret: 120
Rear turret: 100
**then it’s speed will be acceptable**
Lower plate 130 *maybe*
___________________________
**VK 45.02 A**
Front hull: 150
————
Front turret: 240
Side turret: 120
Rear turret: 100
**VK has nice speed already**
______________________
**Ferdinand** 
Either move down a tier or buff frontal armor to: 250 
*reduce speed?*
Side armor: 100
Rear armor: 100
JPanther will be the fast TD
Ferdinand will be the TD with armor
________________________
**Jagdtiger**
Front hull: 200 *superstructure stays the same*
Side armor: 100
Lower plate 130 *maybe*
Then it’s speed will be a acceptable
______________________
**VK 45.02 B**
Lower plate 200
______________________
**Maus** 
Front turret: 260
*maus recently seems to be very squishy*
______________________
**E 100**
Lower plate: 170
*E 100 never had frontal hull weakness historically-it was 200mm thicc*
______________________
**Jagtig. 8,8**
Front hull: 200
Side armor: 100
Lower plate: 130 *maybe*
*reduce speed?*

About the Tiger II... I can pen it’s upper plate with the top IS-3 gun without premium rounds.


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Dark_Magician_Girl #2 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:59 PM

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Tiger 2 will be OP?  And no changes to the E75?  They better not nerf my favorite tank.

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CK_GoldenNuggets #3 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:03 PM

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These changes are very dramatic and most of them are not neccesairy. The current balancing for a +1-/1 game does not need many of these changes. I agree the VK A needs a buff, the Ferdi is already getting buffed next patch and the tiger 2 is questionable. But all the other tanks are fine as they are.

I especially like the part where you said Maus needs a buff because it feels "squishy" when it is currently the best tier 10 tank in the game. Leading in average win rate for the whole player base by 8% as pointed out by Wargamings last tier 10 balance patch. The Maus needs a nerf if anything.

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Rockracer #4 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:04 PM

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so if the E100 get's an lower plate buff, can the Obj. 263 get one too?

I played TDs before it was cool. It was also never cool to begin with.


__Seal__ #5 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:09 PM

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View PostRockracer, on 07 December 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

so if the E100 get's an lower plate buff, can the Obj. 263 get one too?

 

So if the Obj. 263 is getting a lower plate buff, can the T110E3 get one too?

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Woofywolf #6 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:41 PM

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E100’s lower plate is large and very weak, wouldn’t hurt to get 20mm more armor on it. Tiger II hull armor will be 250mm effective. Defender/IS-5 their premium rounds are 272mm of pen
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MRobertsRCS #7 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:50 PM

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View Post__Seal__, on 07 December 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

 

So if the Obj. 263 is getting a lower plate buff, can the T110E3 get one too?

 

So if the T110E3 is getting a lower plate buff, can the T110E4 get one too?

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4sfield #8 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:54 PM

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  Somebody point me to the thread with the medium tank changes.

 

 

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RommelTanker #9 Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:42 PM

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Somebody seems to struggle in hiding their lower plate armor... German heavies are all about the xtra thicc turrets and epic upper plates. Not to mention they have pretty OK gun depression for heavies.

I sense heresy.


WMd76 #10 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:48 PM

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View PostCK_GoldenNuggets, on 07 December 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

These changes are very dramatic and most of them are not neccesairy. The current balancing for a +1-/1 game does not need many of these changes. I agree the VK A needs a buff, the Ferdi is already getting buffed next patch and the tiger 2 is questionable. But all the other tanks are fine as they are.

I especially like the part where you said Maus needs a buff because it feels "squishy" when it is currently the best tier 10 tank in the game. Leading in average win rate for the whole player base by 8% as pointed out by Wargamings last tier 10 balance patch. The Maus needs a nerf if anything.

Source?


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_ArmoredGlassCannon #11 Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:08 PM

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View PostWoofywolf, on 07 December 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

**Tiger II**
Front hull: 200 
Side hull: 100
Rear hull: 100

Are you telling WG to make this tank so over powered just to fit your lack of skill when you're playing this tank? This balancing is ridiculous.
———— 
Lower plate 130 *maybe*

 

Learn how to hide your lower plate by practicing in Training Room.
___________________________


**VK 45.02 B**
Lower plate 200

 

The VK B does not need lower plate buff, in fact this is one of the balancing factors of this tank.


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Rawmusse #12 Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:35 PM

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The Tiger 2 is amazing, wth.

 

Maybe a really small frontal turret buff, but that's about it.


Edited by Rawmusse, 07 December 2017 - 10:36 PM.


TheAnonymausNoob #13 Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:20 PM

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Let's be honest, German tanks don't need a buff [edited], unless it's the Grille which needs it's speed back

0V3RCL0CK3D_N00B #14 Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:50 AM

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View PostTheAnonymausNoob, on 07 December 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

Let's be honest, German tanks don't need a buff [edited], unless it's the Grille which needs it's speed back

 

grille is fine

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Woofywolf #15 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:13 PM

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View Post_Catsro, on 07 December 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

 

 

tiger doesn’t angle against AP rounds, give me a valid arguement
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Darkeh #16 Posted 08 December 2017 - 04:30 PM

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All I wanted was to have more THICC Germans :(

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popisdead #17 Posted 10 December 2017 - 03:57 PM

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I struggle with just boosting German armour for the sake of helping those big lumbering beasts because the Cent 7/1 and 4202 already got a nerf for pen and they did a weird thing with the ammo.  

 

Thus,.. you end up with boosting armour and reducing two already weakened tanks who need armour to be in a range to benefit their ammo uniqueness.

 

After playing on both sides of the argument too I don't think armour necessarily is the key.  It just tends to be where we look first.


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Woofywolf #18 Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:38 PM

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Everything else about the tiger would be fine with this, unless you would like a 1000 HP turbine engine
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SanguinaryDan #19 Posted 12 December 2017 - 02:28 PM

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While I’m absolute trash when it comes to the King Tiger, I’m in agreement that these are not the sort of buffs the German Heavies really need.  

 

Could a couple of them use a little help against same and even lower tier AP rounds in terms of their lower glacis?  Of course.  But show me a tank that couldn’t and then look at the trade offs that tank had to make to get that armor.  And no, you can’t use the IS-7 as an example.  We all know about the IS-7.

 

The only thing I think they need is a turret traverse buff.  A couple of extra °/sec here.  A few more there, and problem solved.  Probably.  Maybe?  Awww hell.  Let’s do it anyway! :great:


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tpcshadow #20 Posted 12 December 2017 - 03:55 PM

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View PostRommelTanker, on 07 December 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

Somebody seems to struggle in hiding their lower plate armor... German heavies are all about the xtra thicc turrets and epic upper plates. Not to mention they have pretty OK gun depression for heavies.

 

Um, many tier 9 tanks can pen the turret cheeks on the E100 with prammo. A day or so ago I had an IS-8 pen my turret cheeks while on the move about 200m away. And don't forget about the enormous slab sides. Now compare to an IS-7 with amazing turret armor, with sides that only have small sections penetrable. 





Also tagged with Balance, balancing, heavy, e100, maus, tiger, vk, jagtiger, German

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