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Improved Modules or Defense System?

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bg2b #1 Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:54 PM

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I just realized that the first level vitality equipment changed at some point from since 3.8.  I always had it on the leftmost choice (Protected Modules) and never changed anything.  Now there's "Improved Modules" which buffs some module HP and mitigates ram damage vs. "Defense System" which reduces the chance that engine, ammo rack, or crew takes damage (so I guess it's changing the odds for the saving throw that modules get when a shell would hit them).  I only noticed the change because I was watching a bit of Perfect_M1nd's stream and he generally seemed to have the rightmost option (Defense System) chosen.  Has anyone done any experiments or thought about it enough to come up with an argument for which choice is better in general?  Or is it tank-dependent?  And if it is tank-dependent, what criteria do you use for deciding?

Edited by bg2b, 12 January 2018 - 08:54 PM.


Rum_Tanker #2 Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:59 PM

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Ive wondered the same thing since noticing the change. Hopefully someone chimes in.


 


ahredstealth #3 Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:13 PM

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I switched a couple of my tanks with low armor/crummy ram damage over...  Then played them for two games.

 

I did not notice a difference.

 

More testing may be necessary, but it sounded good in the read out...


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Bolo_MkXX_Tremendous_DMD #4 Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:28 PM

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I'm thinking of doing the second choice in the AMX 13 90 because the acceleration is so poor and you're going to get nudged and rammed constantly with it.

 

It's sort of twisty though because most of the tanks that this is an issue have weak ammoracks, so I'm going to pick the module which protects ammoracks every time.


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bg2b #5 Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:06 PM

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View PostBolo_MkXX_Tremendous_DMD, on 12 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

It's sort of twisty though because most of the tanks that this is an issue have weak ammoracks, so I'm going to pick the module which protects ammoracks every time.

 

Both options protect the ammo rack, but in different ways.  Improved Modules adds 10% to HP for track, fuel tanks, and ammo rack.  Defense System reduces chance of damage to engine by 10%, crew by 8%, and ammo rack by 7%.  IIRC, the normal chances for damaging the engine, crew, and ammo rack are 45%, 33%, and 27%, so presumably these chances drop to 35%, 25%, and 20% with Defense System.

_Duncan_Idaho_ #6 Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:16 PM

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so maybe the defense system would reduce the potential for engines lit up by fire? My AMX 1390 get caught fire at least once per battle. . 



Bolo_MkXX_Tremendous_DMD #7 Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:20 PM

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I'm not exactly sure how it works but from what I've heard, there are both engine fires and fuel fires.  American tanks are forever on fire if you get behind them because their engine is unarmored from the rear and you can HE it.  I don't know if HE increases fire risk against an exposed module but module damage/destruction is definitely more likely if it is unarmored from a particular angle.  On the flipside, Russian meds burn a lot because they have fuel tanks in the front.  Lights, especially the French lights, have a lot of surface area not covered by tracks so I'm experiencing lots of fires and nonsense as well.

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bg2b #8 Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:22 PM

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I think I'm going to try switching most stuff to Defense System.  Based on how often I get module damage compared to how often I get shot and how much space the modules take up inside the typical tank, I'm guessing that much of the time when I take an engine, crew, or ammo rack hit, it's for enough HP to put the module/crew in a damaged state and force me to burn a kit.  Getting an improved chance of avoiding the module damage entirely seems like it may be better.  If you have a tank where you're regularly getting 1-shot ammo racked or 1-shot set on fire, then perhaps the Improved Modules (perhaps combined with the protective kit provision) would be the way to go.

 

(If I understand the protective kit correctly, it's also +10% HP for ammo rack and fuel tank.  I'm not sure what the 15% crew protection means.  Do crew have HP also, or is it that if they get hit then they're automatically knocked out?)



Rockracer #9 Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:26 PM

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if you ram or not

 

that's basically the only factor i use to decide which one


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Fu_Manchu_ #10 Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:30 PM

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I've only played up to tier 7, so this might change at higher tiers, but it's pretty rare that I take serious damage due to ramming. Injured/killed crews and engine fires however are quite common. So I always go with the Defense System.

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Fu_Manchu_ #11 Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:30 PM

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View PostRockracer, on 12 January 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

if you ram or not

 

that's basically the only factor i use to decide which one

 

I'd never really thought about it changing the damage when I ram (I just assumed it was for damage I take when I get rammed). I do that a fair amount. Still, I think I will stick with the Defense System though.

Edited by Fu_Manchu_, 12 January 2018 - 11:31 PM.

One RNG to rule them all,

One RNG to find them;

One RNG to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

 


RoadKill_177664 #12 Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:18 PM

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I simply like +30% over +25% 

bg2b #13 Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:55 PM

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I tried some experiments in a training room of just shooting at the commander of an FT using a Tetrarch.  Initially I had no equipment on the FT.  From 100 shots, here are the numbers I got

 

No equipment, no provisions: 34% commander knocked out

No equipment, protective kit: 32% commander knocked out

Defense system, no provisions: 21% commander knocked out

Defense system, protective kit: 15% commander knocked out

 

Based on the test with just the protective kit, I was going to conclude that the 15% crew injury protection was something like a crew hitpoint buff and that the Tetrarch was just doing enough damage that the HP buff wasn't anything worthwhile.  The 15% certainly isn't just subtracted from the nominal 33% injury probability.  But maybe it means 33%*0.85 = 28% and the FT commander just happened to get a bit unlucky.  I can't repeat that exact test since I then added the defense system equipment.  The defense system definitely made a big difference.  Based on the wording for the defense system, I'd have expected 25%, but the FT commander may have been a bit lucky this time.  Protective kit+defense system might mean 33%*0.85-8% = 20% or (33%-8%)*0.85 = 21%, but either way, it does seem like the protective kit is doing something on top of the defense system.

 

Anyway, my one definite conclusion is that defense system is doing something significant in terms of protecting you from crew injuries.


Edited by bg2b, 13 January 2018 - 08:55 PM.


Cletusrocks_ap #14 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:47 PM

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I use the one that mitigates ram damage with fast tanks.  Of which I have none.  But if I did, thats what I would use because there's nothing more depressing than trying to ram someone for the kill but dying yourself.  Driving heavies in low tiers I've constantly got leos and elc's who [accidentally maybe?] ram themselves to death on me.  Which is hilarious for me, but it must be so embarrassing for the suicide tanker.

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A good heavy driver knows how to make shots bounce off their armor, how to use cover while fighting at the front, when to get out there and just take the shot to protect his team, to keep the reds attention focused so his team can flank, and to consistently do damage while all of that happens.  

 






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