245 replies to this topic

[___ez_e___]

iRaikkonen, on 08 February 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

 

Are we open to criticism? You make it sound like we have a choice. Pramo gets criticised for every single thing we do. Go to both twister cups. Should have done better. Grim should have gone. Why can’t someone else go? That is the community’s criticism of us. Everything our clan does is under a microscope and we get trashed on the forums as if any clan could do better. We got trashed hours after twister cup 2 for coming in third after a member missed his flight and making roster changes with one hour of training. That is your forum community. That is what our criticism is. 

 

The next interesting bit is that pramos actions opened the door to criticism. This is a good one. What exactly have we done? Not a single person in our clan uses any modifications or cheats whether you believe that or not. The people that did are no longer in the clan. Nor are half of the toxic people like kalash and denzol. We get judged off of our past. Not the present form of us. As MCRoberts said, there are a lot of roster changes in blitz. Maybe if you kept up with them you’d see how we are changing. Instead, we do absolutely nothing to provoke COD from posting this thread which again is ironic considering how much we helped them in clan wars. Seems to me like we got the bad end of the stick here. 

 

You dont have to like us. I’m sure there are plenty of people in NA that don’t. I would ask that you have a legitimate reason for this but everyday I get dm’s in game reminding me other wise. 

 

 

All I’m saying is that perhaps your perception of yourself (PRAMO), differs from the general player base.    I never said I don’t like PRAMO, but I certainly don’t like anyone that is elitist (Yes PRAMO has some players that behave this way)

 

Here are the scenarios:

1.  PRAMO is a top clan with top players (probably how u see yourself)(This is how I viewed PRAMO until that first twister cup). 

2.  PRAMO is the equivalent of the spygate Patriots, except they didn’t ever win the big one.  (I think a decent amount of player see PRAMO this way).  Viewed as cheaters.   It happened accept the responsibility.  It doesn’t matter the person is no longer in the clan.   What’s troubling is that it happened at all.    That would NEVER EVER happen with my clan and I’m only a deputy leader.  NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!.  

3.  PRAMO is top clan with some immature players.  (This is how I view PRAMO currently).  

4.  Other view point.  

 

 

A great example of immature was when a forum tried to compliment PRAMO, but 2 members didn’t real the thread correctly and assumed PRAMO was being attacked.   They then attacked the Forumer trying to compliment them.  

 

I have nothing against PRAMO at all and respect many of the core players. 

 

 

Edited by ___ez_e___, 08 February 2018 - 02:20 PM.

[TonnerreCadien]

Space_Ape_Marksman, on 07 February 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

Tbh should've upvoted AND posted a reason for the upvote... RIP

Getting booted for an upvote is just asinine. You can beat yourself up over it, but there's no way around how silly it is. Talk about sensitive delicate flowers. Really? I checked, and apparently I upvoted it, too. Good thing I'm the lead. Smh.

[DrasLeona247]

TonnerreCadien, on 08 February 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

 Talk about sensitive delicate flowers.

 

Perhaps it's an ego thing, they have a deep mindset that they're the very best and when one of their members does even the slightest thing that they literally have to go hunt through upvotes for, they get highly offended.

 

Maybe they need some perspective that this is really just a mobile tank game. Looks like they're starting to take this thing serious to the next level, as if it's actually employment

[iRaikkonen]

___ez_e___, on 08 February 2018 - 02:07 PM, said:

 

2.  PRAMO is the equivalent of the spygate Patriots, except they didn’t ever win the big one.  (I think a decent amount of player see PRAMO this way).  Viewed as cheaters.   It happened accept the responsibility.

 

 

What exactly did we do? I’d love to be informed of the mistakes we’ve missed as a chance to recitify the situation. 

 

Its funny you mention sports. This Super Bowl, in national surveys, every single state but Mass, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine and some how North Dakota were all rooting against the Patriots. Why? Because they win all of the time and the last scandal they were involved in was the 2014-2015 Deflategate scandal. That was 3 years ago. Has New England’s roster changes since then? Yes. Is it fair to hate the new team and players just because of the actions of people who aren’t there anymore? Absolutely not. Now I find that rather similar to Pramo. Pramo has won CW4, CW2 with two clans, Mobile masters, this past twister season, and the qualifiers for both twister cups. Unless you have any new evidence to support your claim of cheating, the last time pramo was caught doing anything was by one single member who hasn’t been in the clan for months. So I must have to thank you for giving me the Patriots example as it’s very fitting to our current situation. And although “we have yet to win the big one” we have in many other ways and I don’t see any other AFC teams beating us to the super bowl. 

 

The pramo clan family does does not allow cheating. I personally was a nationally ranked athlete for 6 years while training 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. I more than anyone understand and appreciate the need for clean sports as well as having to earn your way to the top. Whether you believe me or not is up to you, but my clan doesn’t cheat. 

Edited by iRaikkonen, 08 February 2018 - 02:27 PM.

[___ez_e___]

iRaikkonen, on 08 February 2018 - 09:23 AM, said:

 

What exactly did we do? I’d love to be informed of the mistakes we’ve missed as a chance to recitify the situation. 

 

Its funny you mention sports. This Super Bowl, in national surveys, every single state but Mass, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine and some how North Dakota were all rooting against the Patriots. Why? Because they win all of the time and the last scandal they were involved in was the 2014-2015 Deflategate scandal. That was 3 years ago. Has New England’s roster changes since then? Yes. Is it fair to hate the new team and players just because of the actions of people who aren’t there anymore? Absolutely not. Now I find that rather similar to Pramo. Pramo has won CW4, CW2 with two clans, Mobile masters, this past twister season, and the qualifiers for both twister cups. Unless you have any new evidence to support your claim of cheating, the last time pramo was caught doing anything was by one single member who hasn’t been in the clan for months. So I must have to thank you for giving me the Patriots example as it’s very fitting to our current situation. And although “we have yet to win the big one” we have in many other ways and I don’t see any other AFC teams beating us to the super bowl. 

 

What your not getting is that I don’t perceive PRAMO as cheaters currently, but many players still do.  

 

PRAMO will have to fight this perception whether you like it or not.  It was self inflicted.   

 

What’s scary to me is that “the last time PRAMO was caught”.

 

Does that mean other things have gone on but you haven’t been caught?

 

 

What you fail to see is that clearly PRAMO wanted to win so badly that poor character players were recruited specifically for tournament. The leadership keeps blaming the player that no longer is in the clan, but you have to understand how and why that person even made it into the clan into the first place.   

 

My clan has NEVER cheated and NEVER will.  

 

INTEGRITY.  

 

 

Another issue I really have is that PRAMO was supposed to represent NA Server, but we were embarrassed by the cheating.  How do you think we all feel about making NA Server look like a bunch of cheaters in first big world tournament?  You embarrassed the NA Server.  

 

 

Also not winning is still not winning doesn’t matter if your runner up or last.  We only care about wins.  

 

 

On another point I’m glad You brought up Deflategate, the second time Patriots were caught.

 I was talking about spygate 2007, the first time Patriots were caught cheating by taping signals.    It reaffirms the idea of once a cheater always a cheater. 

 

 

Edited by ___ez_e___, 08 February 2018 - 02:55 PM.

[_THECRIMSONCHIN]

What I don't think people understand is that PRAMO didn't sign up to represent the NA server- they were a group of guys who wanted to win and banded together. The grudges have gone completely and utterly overboard. Mike, when I was in PRAMO he may have bashed me for bring an E100 to Fort Despair against the PURPL team on a Thursday Silver Series and all that stuff- but he smart as hell. Mike is an excellent leader and in my opinion PRAMO is much better off with Mike leading the way, both in competitive play and representing their clan.  (even though his stats are bad as well heheh).  All the guys in there, sure they may rage sometimes, but I rage too. We are all human. Raik, he may be extremely competitive and have an unhealthy obsession with Corvettes, but at the end of the day he's a great guy and just a proud player who wants to win. Fishy is such a good player and an even better person. I have talked with every single one of the PURPL/PRAMO group and I can tell you that they are good people. But people choose to look over the positive aspects and go straight to the negative aspects- the parts that which make us all human. I get tired of the constant bashing of PRAMO. Get over it. 

[66_75_63_6b_20_79_6f_75]

iRaikkonen, on 08 February 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

 

What exactly did we do? I’d love to be informed of the mistakes we’ve missed as a chance to recitify the situation. 

 

Its funny you mention sports. This Super Bowl, in national surveys, every single state but Mass, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine and some how North Dakota were all rooting against the Patriots. Why? Because they win all of the time and the last scandal they were involved in was the 2014-2015 Deflategate scandal. That was 3 years ago. Has New England’s roster changes since then? Yes. Is it fair to hate the new team and players just because of the actions of people who aren’t there anymore? Absolutely not. Now I find that rather similar to Pramo. Pramo has won CW4, CW2 with two clans, Mobile masters, this past twister season, and the qualifiers for both twister cups. Unless you have any new evidence to support your claim of cheating, the last time pramo was caught doing anything was by one single member who hasn’t been in the clan for months. So I must have to thank you for giving me the Patriots example as it’s very fitting to our current situation. And although “we have yet to win the big one” we have in many other ways and I don’t see any other AFC teams beating us to the super bowl. 

 

The pramo clan family does does not allow cheating. I personally was a nationally ranked athlete for 6 years while training 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. I more than anyone understand and appreciate the need for clean sports as well as having to earn your way to the top. Whether you believe me or not is up to you, but my clan doesn’t cheat. 

Patriots are a poor example, if you choose to use them. 

All the core Players, Coaches and Ownership are still there. So the “cheaters” are still there. 

Also. Pats won their Division, AFC championship and Super Bowl multiple times. You guys by comparison have won; Your Division and a AFC Championship. No Super Bowl yet. Pats have 7 Superbowls. 

Nothing against your Clan(s). You’re not the Patriots. 

Blitz is closer to a Co-Ed for Fun League, with a couple of actual teams that have a few practices prior to the Games. But most just show up for the Free Beer after.

Good job on your Victories, etc. But overall, we all know this Game peaked at the first Twister Cup. Since then. Game has moved away from Competitive play. Many players stopped caring in response to that Twister. The only thing left, that was any fun, was Clan Wars. And players ruined that too by clan bouncing as mercenaries. Too bad WG never actually banned Alts. 

The true Irony. Certain Players in an effort to be #1, destroyed the NA Server and any chance of it actually achieving any actual competitive progress. I guess the easiest way to be #1. Is win because there is only one Team. 

Had WG actually upheld the EULA. This Server would look quite different.

Like I said earlier. 

Congrats. You guys are the Best. 

 

[iRaikkonen]

___ez_e___, on 08 February 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

 

What your not getting is that I don’t perceive PRAMO as cheaters currently, but many players still do.  

 

PRAMO will have to fight this perception whether you like it or not.  It was self inflicted.   

 

What’s scary to me is that “the last time PRAMO was caught”.

 

Does that mean other things have gone on but you haven’t been caught?

 

 

What you fail to see is that clearly PRAMO wanted to win so badly that poor character players were recruited specifically for tournament. The leadership keeps blaming the player that no longer is in the clan, but you have to understand how and why that person even made it into the clan into the first place. 

 

How can you say that people and you yourself don’t perceive us as cheaters but then going on to insinuate that we have cheated other times? It’s only ever been the one individual and it’s because they were caught live-streaming with hit skins. That person who has been largely inactive since that incident, was not part of any team that won anything significant other than the twister 2 team. Not part of clan wars, didn’t win mobile masters, etc. He wasn’t recruited because of his mods and the only reason he was on the twister cup team was due to a lack of people that could physicially go to Minsk. If you genuinely think that he used mods with Daria watching us over his shoulder, you are insane. He was recruited off of his stats and you can check his recents to make sure that he is no different without the mods. 

 

This is quite funny. “We were supposed to represent the na server”. You realize that every single team at twister 1 didn’t use people that were on the roster right? You also know that no one cheated at twister cup don’t you? NA is the smallest server by far amongst WoTB. It is also the least competitive in terms of tier x tournaments. There are 4 or 5 competitive clans on this server. Eu has over a dozen. Ru and Asia have more than 20. We beat a clan that comes from a server 4 times larger than ours with 1 hour of training and people aren’t satisfied. If you don’t like it, then you are welcome to beat us for our spot. 

 

When rn is it we? You are a band wagoning on board the Pramo express like your opinion of our success means anything? Sure you can have a voice and you have a right to say whatever you want. But who are you to judge us?

[iRaikkonen]

r0cKeT, on 08 February 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Patriots are a poor example, if you choose to use them. 

All the core Players, Coaches and Ownership are still there. So the “cheaters” are still there. 

Also. Pats won their Division, AFC championship and Super Bowl multiple times. You guys by comparison have won; Your Division and a AFC Championship. No Super Bowl yet. Pats have 7 Superbowls. 

Nothing against your Clan(s). You’re not the Patriots. 

Blitz is closer to a Co-Ed for Fun League, with a couple of actual teams that have a few practices prior to the Games. But most just show up for the Free Beer after.

Good job on your Victories, etc. But overall, we all know this Game peaked at the first Twister Cup. Since then. Game has moved away from Competitive play. Many players stopped caring in response to that Twister. The only thing left, that was any fun, was Clan Wars. And players ruined that too by clan bouncing as mercenaries. Too bad WG never actually banned Alts. 

The true Irony. Certain Players in an effort to be #1, destroyed the NA Server and any chance of it actually achieving any actual competitive progress. I guess the easiest way to be #1. Is win because there is only one Team. 

Had WG actually upheld the EULA. This Server would look quite different.

Like I said earlier. 

Congrats. You guys are the Best. 

 

 

I didn’t start the Patriots reference. We’ve won 1 of the 3 offlines that have been accessible to NA. I’d say that’s a ring. 

[66_75_63_6b_20_79_6f_75]

iRaikkonen, on 08 February 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

 

I didn’t start the Patriots reference. We’ve won 1 of the 3 offlines that have been accessible to NA. I’d say that’s a ring. 

Like I said. You guys are the Best.

[mike82198]

___ez_e___, on 08 February 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

 

Why would you say something like this or in this manner?   Is that how you talk about all your former clan group members  

 

u mad bro

 

Space Ape is not some random.   

 

He’s a great contributor to the forum?   

 

 

Or do you not know that?  Or how do you not know that?

 

I said it because we get blamed for what people do when having our clans’ signatures even when they’re not actual clan members. 

 

I quit reading the forums two years ago when they became, in my mind, irrelevant and toxic. We don’t give extra credit to people who post here. Or on reddit. Or god knows where else. I don’t know who you or most of the people in this thread are. 

 

DrasLeona247, on 08 February 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

On a side note, is joining a top clan really that important?

 

It seems to me the only thing you get by joining them is:

 

1. Tied to a schedule of training room battles, which may or may not improve your skills

 

2. Must participate in tournaments which, if it is a good clan, you will win (but, as I'm aware, won't give many rewards)

 

3. Embroiled in a never-ending series of futile politics that end up wasting your time and effort (of course it doesn't apply to every top clan, but it seems that most have their variations)

 

The question I have is, why should an ordinary player aspire to be in a top clan? Is it just for the little tag next to their username that people may or may not see? If it's for the friends, then why not just be friends outside of the clan? If it's for the tournaments, is all that effort really worth just the credits?

This isn't a passive-aggressive post (maybe slightly)--I am genuinely curious as to why people put up with all these politics and other stuff

 

 

 

1. Training room battles aren’t there to improve your skills. They’re intended to build a new tournament oriented skillset. If you don’t have the necessary individual skills or the interest to play in organized 7v7 they’re irrelevant. 

2. If you want to participate in tournaments that’s great. If you don’t then they’re irrelevant to you. 

3. Politics do not pertain to most members of a clan and are a forum thing which most ignore/are completely unaware of. PRAMO family has 100+ members who don’t go anywhere near the forums and their flaming and drama. This is true for all the other competitive clans - on this server and RU and EU as well. I visit once a month when flames such as this thread are posted and someone alerts me. 

 

Ordinary players do not belong in top clans so in all honesty your question is moot. Top clans are by definition for exceptional players and the biggest realistic motivation for joining a top clan is usually having friends of the same level as one is at himself. Similarity begets friendship. 

 

The tournament prizing, incidentally, is pretty good. Blitz is free to play for all regular PRAMO/PURPL/GP/Void tournament players from the past season. None of us ever grind credits anymore (some have stock piles around the hundred million) and gold easily covers crews and modules.  

 

It is worth noting that some PRAMO members have never played in a single tournament - and most likely never will. They’re not interested in that facet of the game.  They’re just happy to have other good players to talk and play tanks with. 

 

___ez_e___, on 08 February 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

Another issue I really have is that PRAMO was supposed to represent NA Server, but we were embarrassed by the cheating.  How do you think we all feel about making NA Server look like a bunch of cheaters in first big world tournament?  You embarrassed the NA Server.  

 

A recent server switcher (who had never played for PRAMO in any capacity) streamed openly with mods that are commonly in use in the server he had come from (Russia) and that he was 100% certain were permitted. No one in the clan was aware of the mods and his use of them had no impact on the clans performance. How does this make the clan cheaters? 

Edited by mike82198, 08 February 2018 - 03:47 PM.

[mike82198]

_THECRIMSONCHIN, on 08 February 2018 - 09:50 AM, said:

Mike, when I was in PRAMO he may have bashed me for bring an E100 to Fort Despair against the PURPL team on a Thursday Silver Series and all that stuff- but he smart as hell. Mike is an excellent leader and in my opinion PRAMO is much better off with Mike leading the way, both in competitive play and representing their clan.  (even though his stats are bad as well heheh).  

 

Only reason you said all of the above is bolded. You want me to be leader cuz I suk. 

[__The_Dude_30__]

Also, on a side note. Mike82198, was I_Changed_My_Name_To_This removed from PRAMO or did he leave if you don't mind me asking?

[___ez_e___]

mike82198, on 08 February 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

 How does this make the clan cheaters? 

 

It doesn’t, I’m playing devils advocate and trying to make you guys understand how a lot of players feel. 

A 

 

I think PRAMO is still the best NA clan even with the lose of some key veterans and I don’t think y’all cheat.  

 

 

Some players will always think you are cheaters because of what happened.   I’m saying you have to face the facts and live with that.  

 

 

I also feel everytime you try to minimize it, it just makes it worse.  Just bit the bullet accept responsibility for the mistake.    

[cheasesteak]

Laughing at all of this.

 

"Academic politics are so vicious because the stakes are so small​"  (origin uncertain)

 

The quote applied quite nicely to online game forum arguments.   

[mike82198]

__The_Dude_30__, on 08 February 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

Also, on a side note. Mike82198, was I_Changed_My_Name_To_This removed from PRAMO or did he leave if you don't mind me asking?

 

The very last time? I honestly don’t recall. I’ve booted him out of the clan many times. He has left many times. We don’t see eye to eye on behavior/discipline (internal discipline by the way: in game he is the sweetest person you’ll ever meet, since he is intentionally permanently chat banned*). Do you have advice for me in his case as well? 

 

* - I suspect he was going for the same result last night on the forums. 

 

cheasesteak, on 08 February 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

Laughing at all of this.

 

"Academic politics are so vicious because the stakes are so small​"  (origin uncertain)

 

The quote applied quite nicely to online game forum arguments.   

 

Kissinger. Amazingly true for both academia and these forums. 

 

And this is exactly why the clans that actually play for something in this game don't visit here. 

 

 

Edited by mike82198, 08 February 2018 - 04:18 PM.

[_THECRIMSONCHIN]

mike82198, on 08 February 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

 

Only reason you said all of the above is bolded. You want me to be leader cuz I suk. 

 

:thonkeng

[__The_Dude_30__]

mike82198, on 08 February 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

 

The very last time? I honestly don’t recall. I’ve booted him out of the clan many times. He has left many times. We don’t see eye to eye on behavior/discipline (internal discipline by the way: in game he is the sweetest person you’ll ever meet, since he is intentionally permanently chat banned*). Do you have advice for me in his case as well? 

 

* - I suspect he was going for the same result last night on the forums. 

 

 

Kissinger. Amazingly true for both academia and these forums. 

 

And this is exactly why the clans that actually play for something in this game don't visit here. 

 

 

 

Okay, thank you. And no, I have no advice for you. I am not telling you how to run your clan or what to do with members that you feel are misbehaving. I am trying to make sense of all of this and get a solid, justified reason why Space Ape was removed.

[_34]

Nobody has brought up a valid reason to bash PRAMO.  Not leadership, not skill, not discipline.

 

A clan does not stay at the top for three years without a strong leadership.  Mike, concep, and the deputies do a great job of keeping everything organized and in line.  Their leadership takes care of all incidents quickly.  It isn't possible for them to prevent another person's actions - but they do a very good job of sorting them out.  When an incident happens, the player is reprimanded or removed right away.

 

And you can't say they aren't good enough, either.  PRAMO's won just about everything thrown at them - nobody else on the NA server comes close.  It isn't fair to invalidate these wins just because they lose to some of the other top clans in the world.  They're fantastic and the undisputed best clan in the NA server.  There isn't any way to deny this. 

 

I was in PRAMO myself for a while - I was on the inside.  I know (or at least have a good idea of) how the structure of the clan is run, how most of the members behave, and how hard they work to stay where they are.  From firsthand experience I can tell you that they are a much better group than the community perceives them to be.  And while I did leave the clan for my own reasons, I can't say anything bad about the clan.  They have truly earned my respect - something I don't hand out easily.

 

Even if you may not like PRAMO, you should still be able to respect them.

 

 

 

[AntoineDodson]

What a d!ck move kicking out Space Ape!

 

Seems very petty and childish and now stubborn for not letting him back in.