43 replies to this topic

[e___18989]

Great job!

 

I would place the Leo 1 and 263 a couple spots higher and the T62A maybe a single spot higher. As well as the FV 4202 a C+ on your scale. The standard ammo pen with calibrated shells is not that much of an issue. Plus it has .29 accuracy to hit weak spots.... with HESH.

 

That being said, no one attempting such a large detailed list would place every tank in such a way that it pleases everyone. Again great job! +1!

Edited by e___18989, 06 March 2018 - 02:38 AM.

[Tackywheat1]

ALL heavies except tier 4 needs a nerf.... (Yes... Even tier 5 heavies need a tiny nerf(Some of them))

[Storm216]

I agree with about half of this, lol

probably because you’re placing high-skill-ceiling tanks lower.

[DrasLeona247]

Great post!

 

However, I highly disagree with your Foch 155 score.

 

D+    FV4202, Foch 155, 121

-WE WANT AN AUTOLOADER! During its transfer to Blitz, the Foch lost its famous autoloader and was replaced by an extremely mediocre gun. The dpm is pathetic for a TD, the armor is unreliable and riddled with weak spots. It doesn’t have a turret, very little armor on the sides and viewfinder. The speed is alright but the gun depression is poor, limiting its flexibility.

 

While the gun does have less DPM than the 183, the thing is that it is the balancing factor for the tank's ridiculous speed. The Foch 155 has a better hp/ton ratio than the Leopard 1. It is a ridiculously fast tank, and a hard rammer. As it is, you can keep up with the mediums no problem...and in most cases outrun tanks like the T-62a. Bringing that sort of firepower to the flank would be completely overpowered if it had more DPM. So I think the current gun is quite balanced.

 

About the armor being unreliable, I disagree with that too. I have played it a lot recently and the armor is much more reliable than, say, the 268's. Of course, there is the giant viewfinder on top, but since the buff it does bounce a decent bit, especially when angling. 

 

Side armor is better since the buff--75mm. This means that you can sidescrape ever so slightly if the situation calls for it. I have done so with some success against same tier meds and heavies.

 

Also, the gun depression is indeed poor at 5 degrees. But it's a funny thing you mention it, because over my 155 battles in it (Lol I just saw the battle count ) I never noticed any depression problems since the gun is at the very front of the tank. Peeking over ridges doesn't present much of a problem, and when you tilt back it becomes nearly impossible for them to pen the rangefinder.

 

All in all, I find the Foch 155 an excellent tank. It brings a deadly 155mm gun to the flank with blistering speed and weight. It can ram like a charm, snap off shots reasonably well and bounce shots with relative ease (so long as it's not a 183). While the DPM is mediocre, to be sure, the tank would be overpowered if it were any higher.

 

Long story short, I love mine!! I usually completely suck at tier 10 (usually stay at 7 and 8) but over 155 battles in this I managed to win 68.7% of them (not bragging, just saying that it's easy to get the hang of).

 

If they gave another option for an autoloader, I'm not sure if I would take it. Perhaps a 2-shell 155mm gun with 5 seconds in between shots? That might prevent it from being overpowered while giving it a special edge.

 

But as it is, I have no problems with it. i would give it a B

[TheFluffiestSeal]

Storm216, on 06 March 2018 - 02:55 AM, said:

I agree with about half of this, lol

probably because you’re placing high-skill-ceiling tanks lower.

 

Yeah. I was basing this off of how the overall player base performed, and tried to be as unbiased as possible.

[woof_defender]

Awesome list! The t110e3 needs a buff for sure in its current state. And the leopard ranking is kinda disappointing, just finished grinding Pta and was about to purchase the leopard. Perhaps I’ll still try it to see how it goes. +1 OP

[TheFluffiestSeal]

e___18989, on 06 March 2018 - 02:37 AM, said:

Great job!

 

I would place the Leo 1 and 263 a couple spots higher and the T62A maybe a single spot higher. As well as the FV 4202 a C+ on your scale. The standard ammo pen with calibrated shells is not that much of an issue. Plus it has .29 accuracy to hit weak spots.... with HESH.

 

That being said, no one attempting such a large detailed list would place every tank in such a way that it pleases everyone. Again great job! +1!

 

Will consider. Definitely moving the 4202 up after the feedback here.

[TheFluffiestSeal]

DrasLeona247, on 06 March 2018 - 03:03 AM, said:

Great post!

 

However, I highly disagree with your Foch 155 score.

 

D+    FV4202, Foch 155, 121

-WE WANT AN AUTOLOADER! During its transfer to Blitz, the Foch lost its famous autoloader and was replaced by an extremely mediocre gun. The dpm is pathetic for a TD, the armor is unreliable and riddled with weak spots. It doesn’t have a turret, very little armor on the sides and viewfinder. The speed is alright but the gun depression is poor, limiting its flexibility.

 

While the gun does have less DPM than the 183, the thing is that it is the balancing factor for the tank's ridiculous speed. The Foch 155 has a better hp/ton ratio than the Leopard 1. It is a ridiculously fast tank, and a hard rammer. As it is, you can keep up with the mediums no problem...and in most cases outrun tanks like the T-62a. Bringing that sort of firepower to the flank would be completely overpowered if it had more DPM. So I think the current gun is quite balanced.

 

About the armor being unreliable, I disagree with that too. I have played it a lot recently and the armor is much more reliable than, say, the 268's. Of course, there is the giant viewfinder on top, but since the buff it does bounce a decent bit, especially when angling. 

 

Side armor is better since the buff--75mm. This means that you can sidescrape ever so slightly if the situation calls for it. I have done so with some success against same tier meds and heavies.

 

Also, the gun depression is indeed poor at 5 degrees. But it's a funny thing you mention it, because over my 155 battles in it (Lol I just saw the battle count ) I never noticed any depression problems since the gun is at the very front of the tank. Peeking over ridges doesn't present much of a problem, and when you tilt back it becomes nearly impossible for them to pen the rangefinder.

 

All in all, I find the Foch 155 an excellent tank. It brings a deadly 155mm gun to the flank with blistering speed and weight. It can ram like a charm, snap off shots reasonably well and bounce shots with relative ease (so long as it's not a 183). While the DPM is mediocre, to be sure, the tank would be overpowered if it were any higher.

 

Long story short, I love mine!! I usually completely suck at tier 10 (usually stay at 7 and 8) but over 155 battles in this I managed to win 68.7% of them (not bragging, just saying that it's easy to get the hang of).

 

If they gave another option for an autoloader, I'm not sure if I would take it. Perhaps a 2-shell 155mm gun with 5 seconds in between shots? That might prevent it from being overpowered while giving it a special edge.

 

But as it is, I have no problems with it. i would give it a B

 

Hmm, great food for thought. A lot of people have mentioned it sucks, so it’s unique to here from another perspective. Will definitely consider moving the Foch up.

[TheFluffiestSeal]

woof_defender, on 06 March 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

Awesome list! The t110e3 needs a buff for sure in its current state. And the leopard ranking is kinda disappointing, just finished grinding Pta and was about to purchase the leopard. Perhaps I’ll still try it to see how it goes. +1 OP

 

Well, there still might be hope. Most high skill tanks are fairly low on the list, but you’re a competent player and can probably get some work done with the Leopard.

[TheFluffyGreenSlug]

I'd put the Jageroo slightly higher than a C. It has enough armor that it can push pretty well, it has a great gun, and I'm consistently doing 3-4k games in it. Also, it has enough weight that a skilled player can prevent getting circled in most circumstances as long as he picks his terrain well. It's not OP, but I'd move it up into the B range personally.

Edited by TheFluffyGreenSlug, 07 March 2018 - 04:09 PM.

[DrasLeona247]

Lol just realized I hit 1k posts--I will use my 15 seconds of special attention to urge all of you to try the Foch 155 line! 

 

It is a bit mediocre in the beginning, but the tier 5 tank is blatantly overpowered. Skip 4 and 6, and 7 and 8 are fair tanks. The tier 9 and 10 are simply pure fun. 

 

I urge you to try it!

[_The_Tactition_]

Great list!

[_UrgleMcPurfle_]

The main thing I disagree with is the Leo and T62A placements. In the current campy TD meta, the speed of the Leo allows it to spot and dislodge TDs from more situations than the T62A can. Even with the PTA's lower HP/ton (which is what I have ATM), I still find myself being a more effective spotter than the T62A.

[SanguinaryDan]

Great work, but...

 

A difficult to use tank has a high skill floor. Not ceiling. For some reason this is a common error on this forum. A high ceiling means that with the appropriate skills you can reach incredible stats. The high floor means that without those skills you can’t even get the tank to work at mediocre levels. 

 

At least that’s how it has always been explained to me. 

Edited by SanguinaryDan, 06 March 2018 - 04:11 AM.

[TheFluffiestSeal]

TheFluffyGreenSlug, on 06 March 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

I'd put the Jageroo slightly higher than a C. It has enough armor that it can push pretty well, it has a great gun, and I'm consistently doing 3-4k games in it. Also, it has enough weight that a skilled player can't prevent getting circled in most circumstances as long as he picks his terrain well. It's not OP, but I'd move it up into the B range personally.

Hmm, yeah. I wasn’t 100% sure where to put it. 

[TheFluffiestSeal]

_The_Tactition_, on 06 March 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

Great list!

 

_UrgleMcPurfle_, on 06 March 2018 - 04:09 AM, said:

The main thing I disagree with is the Leo and T62A placements. In the current campy TD meta, the speed of the Leo allows it to spot and dislodge TDs from more situations than the T62A can. Even with the PTA's lower HP/ton (which is what I have ATM), I still find myself being a more effective spotter than the T62A.

Thanks tactition. The T62A is not meant to be a spotter, its more of a camperish tank itself. So is the leo. The tier 9 is pretty different from the tier X, even if they nearly identical stats, because it can face tier 8s. In pure tier X matches, its much more difficult to spot.

[BorisBaddenov]

__Seal__, on 05 March 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

Wonky forum editor strikes again. Had a lot more breathing space in between points on my original doc, but I guess it didn’t work well when I copy pasted it here. Neither did a lot of the bold parts. Oh well. Hope this comes off readable.

 

Also, I should mention, I may have forgotten a Tier X tank or two. Might have. Please tell me civilly so if I did. Much thanks.

 

I have a short attention span.  So - -that wall-o-text was not something I was able to read through.  Formatting it into paragraphs would be helpful for me, cuz I can feel the accomplishment of being finished with one paragraph before moving on to reading the next.

 

So I scrolled to the TLDR part --  

 

WG has basically said that this will be the year of the heavy - with last year being year of the medium - they went on to say that they don't want the meta to be the same year over year - so they will adjust tanks accordingly.

[glass2707]

E4 and Jageroo are too high.  Both are pretty easy targets.  The Leo is too low.  Leo and Stb are the top mediums.  I would

put the Patton right behind those two because of mobility.

[_34]

__Seal__, on 05 March 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

 

Thanks man, means a lot coming from you. The reason I ranked them fairly low is because they are high skill tanks. The average player does not do well in them, while unicums like you perform extremely well in them. A lot of high skill ceiling tanks are therefore ranked low.

 

Yeah, that does make sense.  In a typical tier list, you should sort based on the ceiling instead of average skill level.  If this is just based on how well an average decent player could do in any tank, then you're right - this does a good job.

 

And of course! Most of the ranking lists on the forums aren't very good.  I was pleasantly surprised by this one.

[Wombeer]

Great list, Seal! In your opinion, should the underperforming tanks be brought up rather than the borderline OP ones being nerfed? It seems to me like the IS7 is too competent even with a 10% speed nerf (as you propose). On the other hand, what is to be done with the 183 (assuming it isn't removed/ replaced by the Badger)? I agree that it's a middling tank, but it can't just be left where it is. It needs some attention to smooth some of the edge off.