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ShootinSabot #61 Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:06 PM

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View PostNaDa_22, on 12 July 2018 - 08:38 AM, said:

 

If the best player can excel at any tier -- that includes the tier 10 by default. 

 

There is not a player who is good at tier 10, but is mediocre at lower tiers. But there are plenty of players who do reasonable well up to tier 7-8, but struggle to pull their weight at tier 9 and 10. It's not a coincidence -- it's harder to do well consistently at those two tiers. 

 

When I am talking about tier X separating good from the great, I am referring to tier X being a litmus test. Playing tier 10 exclusively has nothing to do with whether someone is good, or not. I don't care if someone has 20,000 games at tier X. If that player has a mediocre 30/60/90 days stats at tier X, he or she is merely an OK player. 

 

Not that my stats/skill level are all that great but I will definitely agree with the T-IX:T-X wall comment. It is feels harder than the jump between T-V and T-VI.

What is this patience thing you speak of?


                                                             

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Dan_Deerso #62 Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:22 PM

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Grinding every line in the game at once here, and I've gotta say, tier 10 just isn't practical for players like me to spam. I tried it with my T110E4 for a while and gave it the old college try, but it just bleeds way too many credits and slows down my grind too much. I've only got got seven tier 10s to show for 20,000 battles, but I also only have about a banker's dozen scattered tanks tier 8 and under left to research. Can't really buy tanks if you're hemorrhaging credits at a tier that goes nowhere. It truly is a choice between paying the big bucks to grind while spamming 10s, or picking between the two.

 

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minitel_NA #63 Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:53 PM

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I watched that video and I understand what Spartacus has done, if he crosses the river he might be pushed by 2 enemy meds without team support at all, and reds might get 2 bases and Spartacus would be unable to get out, he would get locked over the river by red guns and watch time go by.

 

what he could have done better ? I don’t know and I’m not good enough. I would have done exactly as he did, and probably missed more shots. (That aiming at the wheel well of E75 was gorgeous. It was wrong since he got a 475 shot into you, and you only got 140 in, but the aiming was ingenuous).

 

 

 

about spotting, I think I have even higher spotting, however I don’t think that punishes me as much as not connecting enough shots during game (wasting DPM), nor am I able to win the many 1 versus multiplayer that fall upon me (even 400 more hp would be enough to help me) . I’m not sure if that rings any similar feeling Spartacus, but I feel that I’m playing quite similar to you, and those are my main issues. 

 

I have researched why I’m failing so many shots, and I can’t conclude. Bad habits, natural clumsiness, bad internet ? Instead, I like to blame WG’s rigged patent.


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j0nn0 #64 Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:58 PM

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Dang SD. How do you get such a high spot rate and still have decent stats? I get that being proactive on pinpointing red positions and movements is very advantageous, but being too proactive can get you in too deep. I personally have to check myself in fast tanks so i dont over extend without a reliable escape route and/or immediate support. With less mobile tanks i set up at advantageous positions and wait for over-aggressive reds to run out of cover or for enemy movement to be spotted by allies to my flank before i begin moving out to flank under cover.

 

Regarding the tier 10 convo, could somebody please spell out to me the appeal of it? Other than always being top tier of course. For me being a F2P guy, ive always regarded it as a credit sink and only played it actively back when tier ten was relevant to event grinds (pre 3.8 and lumped tier mission allotments) or if I was crew grinding a newly acquired tier 10 medium (as was the case for my 140 and t62a). I havent used my tier tens with any regular play in the past 6 months or more, but what i remember of it was that mistakes made are simply punished more severely. This holds true as you go up the tiers, of course, but is doubly true when derps such as the 183 can simply delete you with a lucky shot.

 

Now that i think about it, im not quite sure why i favor tier 9 more than 10, despite the fact that it is more-so disadvantaged when placed in tier 9-10 games. Maybe it's the variety? 


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minitel_NA #65 Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:29 PM

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View PostiRaikkonen, on 11 July 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

 

I really feel that. The idea that if you don’t spot, then nobody will. I think I tend to lose a lot of games by trying to be too aggressive too early. I think generally most teams will spot tanks but it may take 10-15 seconds longer than what you may be expecting. Patience is the key. It’s not a bad idea to stay more passive in these games and farm while others spot for you. That way you have more hp late game and can have a better chance at clutching. 

 

Platooning only effects win rate and can either raise or lower your damage. Personally I never think this matters unless there is a huge difference between the expected damage for the win rate. Aka if you average 1500 in the Pershing but have 85% it’s because someone is doing an insane job of carrying you lol. Stats overall aren’t crazy meaningful until tier x anyways so don’t worry too much

 

since we have you here, and since we are talking about spotting, do you mind giving some insights ?

  1. when do you decide to go spot and when do you decide  not to  ?
  2. and when u don’t, what do you do instead ? 

 

First of all some context :

  1. tank driven of course, I have driven only light tanks,
  2.  platoon rate, a platoon mate might dictate some role to form a duo.  I really don’t platoon much except this event XD, when I do I play differently.
  3. finally, I only play public matches, it’s obvious that an organized team will be totally different.
  4. I am talking  encounter. Supremacy might give  priority to territory seizing rather than spotting forces. So I’ll exclude supremacy from the discussion.
  5. i have played a lot of t-62 which can do any task. But recently I am playing mostly LeKpz, amx13 and batchat, some LTTB.  Those are truer light tanks in the gameplay.

 

In this context I don’t spot if 

  • I don’t have an escape route. If there is no way out, it’s not worth it.
  • if there are superior mobile forces in reds. That might be from teamlist or from lack of green support.
  • if there are obvious TDs or derps overlooking my path or intended destination. That depends on the teamlist and the map.

When I don’t spot, what I’m doing is either I went midway and saw that team will not support me and changed course, or in some rarer cases that I had an obvious opportunity (long flank, ambush or something else due to teamlist, platoon tank type or role, etc...)

 

And then  I do spot if :

in all other situations than above listed I do spot, rain or shine. I have been playing light tanks all year, if careful I think some maps are very safe for spotting, although not many solutions exist. 

In some way one might say I’m afraid of not spotting. I don’t platoon, I don’t trust my  meds or tds enough that I could commit to assist them , and I don’t like facing unknown forces somewhere. etc... in a heavy I can lock some part of the map and withstand anyone coming. In a light maybe I don’t know what else to do than spotting ?

 

What is your reasoning ?


Edited by minitel_NA, 12 July 2018 - 07:31 PM.

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Dikc_Dallas #66 Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:31 PM

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View Postj0nn0, on 12 July 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Now that i think about it, im not quite sure why i favor tier 9 more than 10, despite the fact that it is more-so disadvantaged when placed in tier 9-10 games. Maybe it's the variety? 

 

I think there are a couple of reasons to prefer tier 9 over 10.  When you're tier 9 and facing tier 8s, you can bully and punish the reds.  Maybe it is a confidence thing?

 

Also, once I'm at 10 I kind of lose interest... with nothing left to unlock in the tree, what is my goal?  Massively hemorrhaging credits even on a win is only worth it if I have a clear goal in mind.



_Jaq #67 Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:56 PM

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View PostNaDa_22, on 12 July 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

Top clans have figured out awhile ago that tier X stats (in particular damage per battle #) are most indicative about the player's actual skill level and expected performance level in all tiers.

 

Doing well at tier X requires patience, reading match ups correctly and making right adjustments, and most importantly, ability to hit the majority of shots. Those skills & knowledge can trickle downward, so if top clans ever come to abandon tier X, they will simply dominate the next tier. (Though it does not mean that top clan players wouldn't need initial adjustment periods). 

 

Obviously, stats are only as important as context in which they are derived from, so top clans tend to be more nuanced than just looking at simple Xs and Os, and may even put the potential prospects through some testing, so eye-test can be done. 

 

Winning tier X tournaments are obviously a high priority, because that establishes relative pecking order among the top clans, but top clans are like most companies -- they are, in general, looking for the best people available. 

 

This is very interesting and I agree that tier X is the only one that matters when comparing players. However, what is the marker? Is it average damage, WR, etc? Look at my 2 accounts below, analyzing only at the tier X All time stats. My main account _Jaq was platooned a lot and thus have several >70% WR but none with impressive dmg IMO. Then look at my son's account JaqueviusSon which has extremely low tier X platooning (and is also watered down more from my son as I quit letting him play my _Jaq account at some point). Now interestingly I have more with avg damage >2800 on that account, more superuni.uni WN8, but much lower tier X WR. Sounds like you evaluate players for your clan so if you received these 2 profiles, who would you think is the better player? Its an interesting question isn't it considering it is essentially the exact same player except for some sprinkling of his son. To be fair, I have hardly played my main _Jaq account in > 1 yr probably, so some of the higher damage etc is probably my improvement as a player. For instance the Grille, the Maus, AMX 50B, M60  stats are all mine and none from my son. 

https://www.blitzsta...player/com/_Jaq

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NaDa_22 #68 Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:04 PM

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View Post_Jaq, on 12 July 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

This is very interesting and I agree that tier X is the only one that matters when comparing players. However, what is the marker? Is it average damage, WR, etc? Look at my 2 accounts below, analyzing only at the tier X All time stats. My main account _Jaq was platooned a lot and thus have several >70% WR but none with impressive dmg IMO. Then look at my son's account JaqueviusSon which has extremely low tier X platooning (and is also watered down more from my son as I quit letting him play my _Jaq account at some point). Now interestingly I have more with avg damage >2800 on that account, more superuni.uni WN8, but much lower tier X WR. Sounds like you evaluate players for your clan so if you received these 2 profiles, who would you think is the better player? Its an interesting question isn't it considering it is essentially the exact same player except for some sprinkling of his son. To be fair, I have hardly played my main _Jaq account in > 1 yr probably, so some of the higher damage etc is probably my improvement as a player. For instance the Grille, the Maus, AMX 50B, M60  stats are all mine and none from my son. 

https://www.blitzsta...player/com/_Jaq

https://www.blitzsta...om/JaqueviusSon

 

The marker for being a good player used to be over 60+ WR and 2,500 damage per game. Now it may have gone up to 60+ WR and 2,700 damage per game, but don't quote me on it. 

 

Then there is a PRAMO standard : over 2,950 damage per game and correspondingly high WR -- which is not listed on PRAMO discord, but I would imagine it's about high 60% to high 70%. 

 

If both of those accounts applied simultaneously, and I have to pick one, I would go with JaqueviusSon. Having a higher damage at tier X is more important to me than other stats, though I cannot tell for certain who is the better player without seeing the actual gaming footage. 



NaDa_22 #69 Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:16 PM

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View PostShootinSabot, on 12 July 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Not that my stats/skill level are all that great but I will definitely agree with the T-IX:T-X wall comment. It is feels harder than the jump between T-V and T-VI.

What is this patience thing you speak of?

 

There is a linear progression from tier 1 to 7. Then a sudden jump at tier VIII, and it only gets worse at IX-X. The difficulty with tier VIII stems from having to deal with constant IS spam on the other side. Tier IX-X are even harder, because tier X TDs don't play around. The majority of them have 640 alpha, and one of them can delete more than half of your HP in a single shot. 

 

But it's not just TDs that are powerful at tier X. Tier X mediums are not what they once were, but still can put up over 3,000 DPM. Then there are IS4, IS4, E100, and MAUS that will bounce & absorb all kinds of shots. 

 

Patience is important at tier X, because the pacing of the game is overall much slower -- who can blame a player for being extremely cautious when there are two unspotted 183s on the other side. Even a simple mistake can be very unforgiving; it's best to calculate everything ahead, instead of charging in and seeing what's going on. 


Edited by NaDa_22, 12 July 2018 - 09:20 PM.


Doomofnoobs #70 Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:35 PM

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View PostSpartacusDiablo, on 11 July 2018 - 03:48 AM, said:

May I trouble you for some constructive criticism of my 30 day performance?  Pull no punches.  Give it to me straight. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

 

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You're solid across the board. But if you want to take it further, I'd say play more high tier tanks. It's more competitive especially in tier 10 and you will learn much more 

ShootinSabot #71 Posted 13 July 2018 - 02:32 AM

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View PostNaDa_22, on 12 July 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

 

There is a linear progression from tier 1 to 7. Then a sudden jump at tier VIII, and it only gets worse at IX-X. The difficulty with tier VIII stems from having to deal with constant IS spam on the other side. Tier IX-X are even harder, because tier X TDs don't play around. The majority of them have 640 alpha, and one of them can delete more than half of your HP in a single shot. 

 

But it's not just TDs that are powerful at tier X. Tier X mediums are not what they once were, but still can put up over 3,000 DPM. Then there are IS4, IS4, E100, and MAUS that will bounce & absorb all kinds of shots. 

 

Patience is important at tier X, because the pacing of the game is overall much slower -- who can blame a player for being extremely cautious when there are two unspotted 183s on the other side. Even a simple mistake can be very unforgiving; it's best to calculate everything ahead, instead of charging in and seeing what's going on. 

 

Thanks for the reply NaDa. It is definitely the patience thing that gets me at 10. I did not find the progression from 1-7 linear. It felt like there was a big jump between 5 and 6 and going from 8 to 9, another jump. 6-8 was certainly stepper than the progression from 1-5 but I feel competitive at 8, not so much at 9 or 10. This game is about competition and I will freely admit that I get psyched out at 9 and 10 and especially 10.  

                                                             

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_Jaq #72 Posted 13 July 2018 - 02:02 PM

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View PostNaDa_22, on 12 July 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

 

The marker for being a good player used to be over 60+ WR and 2,500 damage per game. Now it may have gone up to 60+ WR and 2,700 damage per game, but don't quote me on it. 

 

Then there is a PRAMO standard : over 2,950 damage per game and correspondingly high WR -- which is not listed on PRAMO discord, but I would imagine it's about high 60% to high 70%. 

 

If both of those accounts applied simultaneously, and I have to pick one, I would go with JaqueviusSon. Having a higher damage at tier X is more important to me than other stats, though I cannot tell for certain who is the better player without seeing the actual gaming footage. 

 

Interesting but It's hard to disagree. The Son account I think shows a higher ceiling but the _Jaq account shows more consistency. Also, this is interesting because the platooned account has several >70% wr but the mixed account has better avg dmg (except for some stinkers thanks to my kid lol). I've always said toon for WR and solo for avg damage and WN8 and I think there is some truth to this. Hard to say because for the last yr or more I've basically just been playin the son account so some of this is just a reflection of improvement as a player as well. Thanks for your time bud!

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NICKEL_AND_DIME #73 Posted 13 July 2018 - 04:00 PM

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View PostNaDa_22, on 12 July 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

Patience is important at tier X, because the pacing of the game is overall much slower

 

Played a few Tier X games yesterday.  I played conservatively, getting in good positions where I could plan on dealing damage and having cover from incoming damage.

 

For some of those games, within two minutes I was alone, against 5 or 6 red tanks that rolled through the green team.  I did not platoon, and I did move with the team. 

 

It seems the only reason to play Tier X is to gain some nod of approval from the better players of the game who reside at top tier.  These same players are often the ones who look primarily at the damage and WR metrics, and are likely to stat-shame in their attempts to motivate (if one can call it that).

 

Seriously, why waste the effort in loss of credits, game related frustrations, for the approval of people who are likely to be condescending if you make any effort to communicate? 


Edited by NICKEL_AND_DIME, 13 July 2018 - 04:01 PM.


ahredstealth #74 Posted 13 July 2018 - 05:01 PM

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View Postj0nn0, on 12 July 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

Regarding the tier 10 convo, could somebody please spell out to me the appeal of it? 

 

You don't get to high five Maverick when you're flying the Cessna 150.

 

If you don't care about high fiving Maverick and are just looking for a bit of fun or have a part time hobby, then play whatever you want.


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_Jaq #75 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:39 PM

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View Postahredstealth, on 13 July 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

 

You don't get to high five Maverick when you're flying the Cessna 150.

 

If you don't care about high fiving Maverick and are just looking for a bit of fun or have a part time hobby, then play whatever you want.

 

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_Jaq #76 Posted 14 July 2018 - 10:32 AM

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Oops. Double post 

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mike82198 #77 Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:34 PM

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View Post_Jaq, on 12 July 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

This is very interesting and I agree that tier X is the only one that matters when comparing players. However, what is the marker? Is it average damage, WR, etc? Look at my 2 accounts below, analyzing only at the tier X All time stats. My main account _Jaq was platooned a lot and thus have several >70% WR but none with impressive dmg IMO. Then look at my son's account JaqueviusSon which has extremely low tier X platooning (and is also watered down more from my son as I quit letting him play my _Jaq account at some point). Now interestingly I have more with avg damage >2800 on that account, more superuni.uni WN8, but much lower tier X WR. Sounds like you evaluate players for your clan so if you received these 2 profiles, who would you think is the better player? Its an interesting question isn't it considering it is essentially the exact same player except for some sprinkling of his son. To be fair, I have hardly played my main _Jaq account in > 1 yr probably, so some of the higher damage etc is probably my improvement as a player. For instance the Grille, the Maus, AMX 50B, M60  stats are all mine and none from my son. 

https://www.blitzsta...player/com/_Jaq

https://www.blitzsta...om/JaqueviusSon

 

Hey, sorry it’s taken me a while to respond. I thought I messaged you back about this in game but I probably didn’t.

 

Neither account has consistently good performance in standard tanks (frontline heavies and meds). One has better damages but it’s all TDs and autoloaders. Superior winrates on the old account are clearly due to platooning - probably with better players and definitely at a time when tier 10 was easier. I would pick the Son account because of the Maus stats. Everything else is largely on par. 

 

View PostNICKEL_AND_DIME, on 13 July 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

Played a few Tier X games yesterday.  I played conservatively, getting in good positions where I could plan on dealing damage and having cover from incoming damage.

 

For some of those games, within two minutes I was alone, against 5 or 6 red tanks that rolled through the green team.  I did not platoon, and I did move with the team. 

 

It seems the only reason to play Tier X is to gain some nod of approval from the better players of the game who reside at top tier.  These same players are often the ones who look primarily at the damage and WR metrics, and are likely to stat-shame in their attempts to motivate (if one can call it that).

 

Seriously, why waste the effort in loss of credits, game related frustrations, for the approval of people who are likely to be condescending if you make any effort to communicate? 

 

No one in this game cares about motivating you and you shouldn’t care about others’ opinions or approval: you’re an adult and should have your own goals. For whatever reason, this game’s best players congregate in tier 10. If you find no satisfaction in competing against them then don’t do it. If you’re looking for less critical/uncritical teammates then play in lower tiers. 



SpartacusDiablo #78 Posted 15 July 2018 - 07:09 PM

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Untrust______ #79 Posted 15 July 2018 - 11:08 PM

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View Postmike82198, on 14 July 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

 

 

Hey, sorry it’s taken me a while to respond. I thought I messaged you back about this in game but I probably didn’t.

 

Neither account has consistently good performance in standard tanks (frontline heavies and meds). One has better damages but it’s all TDs and autoloaders. Superior winrates on the old account are clearly due to platooning - probably with better players and definitely at a time when tier 10 was easier. I would pick the Son account because of the Maus stats. Everything else is largely on par. 

 

 

No one in this game cares about motivating you and you shouldn’t care about others’ opinions or approval: you’re an adult and should have your own goals. For whatever reason, this game’s best players congregate in tier 10. If you find no satisfaction in competing against them then don’t do it. If you’re looking for less critical/uncritical teammates then play in lower tiers. 

 

Not only the best playets but the worst also. IMO see a sh.t ton of blue lippers taking up space on greens in fact usualy more in upper tiers then lower.

Edited by Untrust______, 15 July 2018 - 11:11 PM.

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mike82198 #80 Posted 15 July 2018 - 11:25 PM

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View PostUntrust______, on 15 July 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

 

Not only the best playets but the worst also. IMO see a sh.t ton of blue lippers taking up space on greens in fact usualy more in upper tiers then lower.

 

Objectively, the players in tier 1-5 (1-5 days into the game in many cases) are by far the worst in the game. Tier 10 has its dedicated trolls but those exist elsewhere too. The real issue with tier 10 is that it is much harder to overcome your teammates' incompetence - just as it is harder to do most other things. Tier 10 bad players are much more noticeable because they have a much greater impact on ones experience. 

Edited by mike82198, 15 July 2018 - 11:26 PM.





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