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Flanking Tactics Help


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SullBhit #1 Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:45 PM

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I’m a good strategic and tactical player but a poor ‘fast twitch’ player.  That means I don’t do well 1v1 or 1 v any.  I much prefer having A meat shield or 2 working with me.  This causes a problem when I’m low tier in a light or even some meds.  

 

Here’s the issue:  My team decides to take red head-on.  Given the lineup, I feel secure flanking alone and know that I have the speed to escape if the unexpected happens and red flanks so I go alone.

 

I have a successful flank, I try to find a spot where I can snipe unseen, but invariably I get spotted and a bunch of tanks turn to deal with me.  The maps are small so I end up getting one or 2 shots in before I have to run.  I now have the time it took to run the flank and the time it takes to escape the flank with little or no output... all to get 1 or 2 real shots off at limited alpha.

 

I’m a firm believer that you have to constantly deliver damage as quickly as possible if you want to consistently win.  The above scenario doesn’t allow that type of play.  Since I’m not a great fast twitch player, I can’t sit flank alone and hold off 2-3 that may turn to chase.  This is particularly challenging in the LTTB and I just got the 54 ltwt.  The LTTB’s gun can’t handle IS Sapm and the 54 ltwt’s armor can’t handle... anything.

 

For those good at lights, how do you handle this?  Should I start as a supporter, get some spots/damage at front, let the heavies engage and then flank as game progresses?  I’ve tried short flanks but found the middle area to be dangerous when the unexpected happens.

 

What do you do? 

 



Jonny_applesauce #2 Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:13 PM

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If you flank in a bottom tier light and cause 2 or 3 enemy tanks to devote their time to killing you, you make it a 6v4 in favor of your team

 

If you run away, use camo to stay hidden, and otherwise be difficult to kill, you lengthen the time those 2 or 3 are wasting

 

So you don't really have to be consistently causing dmg to win, just enough damage to keep a few tank's attention but not so much that you get wrecked 


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LordManaz #3 Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:14 PM

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the key? dont overcommit, hide the tank when you are reloading or roll back, always showing the front armor to enemy and run scared, in my own experience if i flank alone and some meds try to catch me i run like a btch, they follow me but i run to my tds or heavies, nobody want to be flanked so they shot and now those guys are hurt and i can finish them... read the enemy behavior, after 2 shots, they always change position or if they are 2-3 they may push hard, so be ready to run.

 

based in my own experience


 

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ahredstealth #4 Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:20 PM

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Run Away.

 

Like Brave Sir Robin.

 

If they waste time chasing you, they are not shooting at your team.  If you can draw enough of them off, you can give your team a solid ratio to push through.

 

Just don't be surprised when your team parks sideways, forgets where the fire button is, and dies, then calls you out for not being helpful.

 

Remember, it's not so much a problem with light tanks and more of a "feature."


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BobboEvans #5 Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:56 PM

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View PostJonny_applesauce, on 12 July 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

If you flank in a bottom tier light and cause 2 or 3 enemy tanks to devote their time to killing you, you make it a 6v4 in favor of your team

 

If you run away, use camo to stay hidden, and otherwise be difficult to kill, you lengthen the time those 2 or 3 are wasting

 

So you don't really have to be consistently causing dmg to win, just enough damage to keep a few tank's attention but not so much that you get wrecked 

Aaahhhh Mr. Applesause.  That’s what I kept thinking too but that’s not what happens in my games.  The 4-5 Left at the front kill my 6 and I can’t do enough damage running from 2-3 to impact the game.  My experience suggests massive damage is the only way to win consistently.  Being a focus of attention alone  isn’t enough.

 

View Postahredstealth, on 12 July 2018 - 09:20 PM, said:

Run Away.

 

Like Brave Sir Robin.

 

If they waste time chasing you, they are not shooting at your team.  If you can draw enough of them off, you can give your team a solid ratio to push through.

 

Just don't be surprised when your team parks sideways, forgets where the fire button is, and dies, then calls you out for not being helpful.

 

Remember, it's not so much a problem with light tanks and more of a "feature."

 

Hahaha.  I didn’t hit your link but monte python always comes to mind as I’m running away.  The voice in my head has a British accent too.

 

See my response to applesause.  I get a lot of those sideways players.  It could be 9v3 on the front and they would lose.  The only way I win consistently is if I deliver damage.  Me.  Me.  Me.  That’s not arrogance, or self importance, that’s just reality.

 

i have a guy i toon with who can pump out 3k damage in the CDC before I get 3 shots in on my IS-6... of which 2 went into the dirt.  Unfortunately, he’s a good fast twitch player.  That’s not a skill I can learn.  I need tactics.


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Jonny_applesauce #6 Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:05 PM

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View PostBobboEvans, on 12 July 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

Aaahhhh Mr. Applesause.  That’s what I kept thinking too but that’s not what happens in my games.  The 4-5 Left at the front kill my 6 and I can’t do enough damage running from 2-3 to impact the game.  My experience suggests massive damage is the only way to win consistently.  Being a focus of attention alone  isn’t enough.

 

Hahaha.  I didn’t hit your link but monte python always comes to mind as I’m running away.  The voice in my head has a British accent too.

 

See my response to applesause.  I get a lot of those sideways players.  It could be 9v3 on the front and they would lose.  The only way I win consistently is if I deliver damage.  Me.  Me.  Me.  That’s not arrogance, or self importance, that’s just reality.

 

i have a guy i toon with who can pump out 3k damage in the CDC before I get 3 shots in on my IS-6... of which 2 went into the dirt.  Unfortunately, he’s a good fast twitch player.  That’s not a skill I can learn.  I need tactics.

 

In which case you need to play a class other than light tanks because light tanks aren't always about damage dealing

 

Or try really high damage lights like the T71, French autoloaders, lights that can deal the damage in bursts


WoT blitz is better than WoT PC imho because no arty and +/- 1 mm.

 

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jkwon126 #7 Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:15 PM

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Like Johnny said, if you peel off a couple of tanks from the main battle line you've done your job. Sometimes even one does the trick.

 

But you're right - it's a real challenge when your team isn't up to the task and squander the number advantage you gave them. I tend to continue kiting tanks. If they wander far enough, I can sometimes full-speed circle back to rejoin the front and spearhead an opening by finishing off a weak red with a teammate.


 

 

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Jonny_applesauce #8 Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:34 PM

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View Postjkwon126, on 12 July 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:

Like Johnny Jonnysaid, if you peel off a couple of tanks from the main battle line you've done your job. Sometimes even one does the trick.

 

But you're right - it's a real challenge when your team isn't up to the task and squander the number advantage you gave them. I tend to continue kiting tanks. If they wander far enough, I can sometimes full-speed circle back to rejoin the front and spearhead an opening by finishing off a weak red with a teammate.

Yeah its always about trading damage for distance, and the glorious thing about light tanks is they can often just get more distance if its a biggish map with slowish enemies


WoT blitz is better than WoT PC imho because no arty and +/- 1 mm.

 

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DanAnsomeHansome #9 Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:49 PM

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Flanking is getting harder when your team has yolod and your down 4 tanks before you finish your flank. 

jkwon126 #10 Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:53 PM

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p.s. Just had a game where we had 3 meds to their 2. 3rd med didn't flank with us while a red TD reinforced theirs. I freaking hate you 3rd med.
 

 

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Immel_man #11 Posted 13 July 2018 - 03:17 AM

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Have your head on a swivel and don’t just run around the map to the rear. Having foresight to the shifts of the battle is the key to lite tanking. Being there before the reds get there and being gone before they can chase you down.
Know your escape routes. Know where your help is.
And most importantly; don’t be afraid to NOT fire a shot. Sometimes perma spotting that TD at the back is the better flanking maneuver than firing a shot and getting the light bulb.

rabbitlover2016 #12 Posted 13 July 2018 - 03:28 AM

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When you play a fast lightly armoured tank, the key is support to start and engage later. First, find a safe spotting area and help you team get off shots. Occasionally peem out and pop off a shot. Constantly reposition as to keep the enemy on their toes. Read your map know where help is needed most and move there. As the enemy is weakened, aid with you r team's push. Move up the flank and distract the enemy. At this point damage doesn't matter
Just get off one shot, camo reset and get off another. Get everyone's attention on u and let you team lower their hp.
Finally wrap up. Use your speed and mobility to zip around remaining low hp tanks. Top off your kill and DMG scores here.



j0nn0 #13 Posted 13 July 2018 - 03:42 AM

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Flanking means a lot of different things. The important thing is context.

 

For example, Castilla map has an acceptable flank position by that chapel upon the hill given a heavy dominated game and the opposition has no mobile flanking capability. From north side spawn, you can race up to the chapel and wait for heavies to engage across the river and light up targets for you to harass. Same applies to the southside spawn. If there are sniper oriented TDs on red, you can often spot them taking the ridges every other game. If no targets present themselves, you can then cautiously push your flank farther towards the enemy spawn points or shortcut through town depending on the match development. Also, i almost forgot to mention, but the same tactics can be applied if there are opposing flankers. You just need to make sure your alies have vantage points to provide adequate support fire. I racked up over 3k assist dmg with my t54 that way by solo spotting and tracking 3-4 who tried to claim the chapel.

 

A few key points to keep in mind when attempting to "flank" are cover (hard and soft), lines of sight, tank capabilities, possible support, possible opposition, and escape routes. These will determine how you engage, spot, where you do it, and if/when to push farther.


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Gavidoc01 #14 Posted 13 July 2018 - 04:35 AM

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Key is passive spotting. If you’re the only light don’t flank right away. Set up and passive spot without shooting. Let your team know where they are. Once you have done that then flank but be wary of any additional tanks you didn’t spot. Doesn’t work all the time but the first job of s,light is to passive spot, get off a few shots, try to turn some reds to chase you and then engage full force mid game. 

 

If if you can’t effectively do this, move to mediums. 


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SullBhit #15 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:29 PM

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While passive scouting is always an option, it means you’re not bringing the damage.  While there are games where passive scouting will absolutely be effective (you have some players who can spell ‘tank’), there are a large number of games where the win is solely on your shoulders.  No damage output... no win.  This is the equation I’m trying to solve for...

__Crusader6__ #16 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

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If your a 60% player, passive spotting doesn’t really work unless your in a toon, or lucked into some decent players on green.  

   Sad fact is the player base is beyond retarded.  

You can do your ‘job’ and still often lose.   

 

Sometimes in lights a little yolo is a good thing - as most reds will chase the Rabbit and you can draw them into your spawn camping bozos - or at least turn some turrets so your potatoes can hit something and pen for once.   

 

 


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SullBhit #17 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:58 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 13 July 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

If your a 60% player, passive spotting doesn’t really work unless your in a toon, or lucked into some decent players on green.  

   Sad fact is the player base is beyond retarded.  

You can do your ‘job’ and still often lose.   

 

Sometimes in lights a little yolo is a good thing - as most reds will chase the Rabbit and you can draw them into your spawn camping bozos - or at least turn some turrets so your potatoes can hit something and pen for once.   

 

 

They are dogs with a bone, sometimes.  Once they grab on, it takes a pretty big stick to get them to let go.  I was a bit afraid of your toon comment. This was part of my thinking, too.  I tend not to toon much and maybe that’s what I need to change.

 

I’m going to hold off on the controlled yolo tactic.  When I try this, my luck usually has a 65%er in a big gun tank on red with laser tracking and firing controls waiting for me.



rabbitlover2016 #18 Posted 13 July 2018 - 04:18 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 13 July 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

If your a 60% player, passive spotting doesn’t really work unless your in a toon, or lucked into some decent players on green.  

   Sad fact is the player base is beyond retarded.  

You can do your ‘job’ and still often lose.   

 

Sometimes in lights a little yolo is a good thing - as most reds will chase the Rabbit and you can draw them into your spawn camping bozos - or at least turn some turrets so your potatoes can hit something and pen for once.   

 

 

Yeah trust me the reds love to chase this rabbit. And we wonder why my stats are bad.



__Crusader6__ #19 Posted 13 July 2018 - 06:04 PM

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Controlled Yolo is a bit of a misnomer.  

   Early active spot with a brief exposure.  

Depending upon team composition it will be how much one exposes for a spot.   

 

A competent red able to get in position to deny you much more than him as a spot without major danger to you can alter your actions quickly.  Don’t commit to any COA without a good exit plan. 

 

I’m not a passive spotter - mainly as it rarely works even in 9-10 without a toon.  

    


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Guderian5266 #20 Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:47 PM

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Not much else I can add that hasn't been stated above already. I agree with most of it and can only summarize things like this:

 

- You need to do lots of damage early and often (while staying alive) and "carry harder" in order to win more reliably. Relying on random pubbies as anything other than meat shields is not a winning strategy.

- Lights are very difficult for us mere mortals to carry in. The plan in Lights is to spot-relocate-flank-harass, distract the enemy, hope your green random pubbies can take some advantage of your efforts. This hope is false.

- therefore, for most of us, Lights are the most difficult tanks to reliably win in.

 

This theory bears out for me at last. If I just check my WR and survival for 30/60/90/all time, my lights are significantly lower than my other tank types.

It hasnt been helped in this age of heavies and TDs. Back in the old days I could run lights like Crusader and VK28 and carry plenty of games. I haven't done much of that in a long time. Maybe its just me... :(


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