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PLEASE watch out! Ricochet mechanics in 5.4

5.4

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reluctanttheist #1 Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:40 PM

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Thanks to our good friend Minitel who keeps WG on point with respect to game mechanics.  He discovered that the 20° ricochet rule was being broken in 5.3 and I confirmed it myself in a training room, with shell penetrations happening under 15° of impact angles in many cases.  In these cases, the shell was less than 3x the armor thickness so we're not talking overmatching.  Even if the shell caliber is more than 2x the armor thickness, as long as it's not 3x, the 20° ricochet mechanic MUST work.

 

This largely negates the sidescraping tactic.  Good players sidescrape all the time.  If we can't rely on the 20° autobounce angle, then WG needs to come clean on this change.  Or at the very least confirm that the game engine is working correctly.

 

In 5.4, if it seems that your side armor is getting penetrated too easily when sidescraping, keep us posted in this thread.  Save your replays and upload them to the Armor Inspector website so the app can analyze the incoming shot.

 

UPDATE: this problem continues in 5.4.  Impact angles as low as 16° can result in penetrations even with shells that are less than 3x the armor thickness.  Ricochets are thus broken in 5.4.  The problem may be related to shells that hit the track's hitbox first before hitting the tank's armor.  In these cases, the shell may penetrate even if there is tank armor behind the tracks that should cause the shell to bounce.

 

If you submit a ticket to WG to complain, make sure you include a replay showing the issue at impact angles less than 20°.  Make sure you refer WG to Minitel's original ticket number which is 110066097.


Edited by reluctanttheist, 12 October 2018 - 05:27 PM.

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ChunkySquirrel #2 Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:44 PM

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I'm so hurt 

       

                                           

Wenn vor uns ein feindlicher Panzer erscheint,
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Was gilt denn unser Leben für uns'res Reiches Heer? Ja, Reiches Heer.

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Godzillacus #3 Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:45 PM

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Interesting, might explain a couple of games I questioned. Will keep an eye out.

Tackywheat1 #4 Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:45 PM

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View Postreluctanttheist, on 09 October 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

Thanks to our good friend Minitel who keeps WG on point with respect to game mechanics.  He discovered that the 20° ricochet rule was being broken in 5.3 and I confirmed it myself in a training room, with shell penetrations happening under 15° of impact angles in many cases.  In these cases, the shell was less than 3x the armor thickness so we're not talking overmatching.  Even if the shell caliber is more than 2x the armor thickness, as long as it's not 3x, the 20° ricochet mechanic MUST work.

 

This largely negates the sidescraping tactic.  Good players sidescrape all the time.  If we can't rely on the 20° autobounce angle, then WG needs to come clean on this change.  Or at the very least confirm that the game engine is working correctly.

 

In 5.4, if it seems that your side armor is getting penetrated too easily when sidescraping, keep us posted in this thread.  Save your replays and upload them to the Armor Inspector website so the app can analyze the incoming shot.

 

yeah also apparently HE can sometimes pen extremely angled tracks and other times it just splashes

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FussyRude #5 Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:51 PM

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I hope this is a joke.

Tackywheat1 #6 Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:53 PM

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View PostFussyRude, on 09 October 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

I hope this is a joke.

 

its not though

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Ericmopar #7 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:00 PM

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Well, at least that affects everybody.

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reluctanttheist #8 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:02 PM

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View PostFussyRude, on 09 October 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

I hope this is a joke.

 

It's not.  Minitel brought it to attention and worked up some replays that he sent to WG.  WG blew him off saying it wasn't 20°, or because the shell hit the tracks first, the ricochet doesn't apply, etc.

 

Whether there's external modules like tracks outside the primary armor or not, players need to know the rules for ricochets are consistently being calculated.  And in 5.3 it was broken.


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Posit1ve_ #9 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:04 PM

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Well, a good way to test it would not be with sidescraping, but by using a tank like the Bat Chat. If you angle the upper plate up by like 3 degrees, it should auto-ricochet

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BorisBaddenov #10 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:05 PM

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View PostEricmopar, on 09 October 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Well, at least that affects everybody.

 

Not really --

 

If you've no idea about sidescraping, or angling - then that's not something you've learned how to do.  On the other hand, if you've learned the game pretty well, then you've probably gotten at least semi-proficient with sidescraping.  Now if all of a sudden the game mechanics work, the experienced players have had an effective tactic removed, while the ignorant remain ignorant.

 

 

Peace-

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the use of "you" above is meant to be collective


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cheesehead247365 #11 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:05 PM

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pardon my French, but how do they f*** that up?  

Icefang50 #12 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:06 PM

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Why start a new thread? Minitel’s thread is still relevant? 

reluctanttheist #13 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:13 PM

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View PostIcefang50, on 09 October 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

Why start a new thread? Minitel’s thread is still relevant? 

 

Oof - granted.  With 5.4 coming out today I'd like everyone to really pay attention to this problem because if it's still broken in 5.4 - we need to hold WGs feet to the fire.  If 5.4 weren't being released I would have just added onto Minitel's thread :rolleyes:

Tanks:  _X: T110E5, T110E3, FV215b(183), IS-7, Obj.140  _IX: M103, T-54  _VIII: IS-6, T34, Lowe, T-44, IS-6, IS-3D  _VII: T-43, Comet, E25, AT-15A, SU-122-44
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THE_Viajero #14 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:13 PM

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You realy have to wonder how WG manages to always break something after they fix something they broke before :amazed:

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PA60Pilot #15 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:15 PM

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I'm afraid to update anymore.

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Icefang50 #16 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:19 PM

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There is no holding WG feet to the fire. 

 

Endeavor to Persevere 



Hendy111 #17 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:28 PM

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View PostIcefang50, on 09 October 2018 - 10:19 PM, said:

There is no holding WG feet to the fire. 

 

You got that straight. Unless you have something for them that can increase their profits they simply don’t give a damn about any of you. 



EclipsePlaysX #18 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:35 PM

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Hm  explains a few shots ive taken in is-5. 

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JimR_ATL #19 Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:57 PM

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Regarding “save your replays”, I really, REALLY hope they fix this setting so it’s sticky. Having to set it every time you entered the game in 5.3 sucked.

Tackywheat1 #20 Posted 09 October 2018 - 11:06 PM

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View PostEclipsePlaysX, on 09 October 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

Hm  explains a few shots ive taken in is-5. 

 

yeah had several shots that should've bounce pen... then again I've bounced ISU-152 shots off of flat side armor

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